Injured in Jail Explosion

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

If you are incarcerated you are helpless. Your guards are responsible for your life and safety as long as you are under their control. If they fail in that they should be fired and incarcerated themselves for dereliction of duty and allowing harm to come to someone in their charge. It's bad enough the cops beat and shoot people and their dogs everyday. I hope the prisoners get big bucks.

 
     Your last sentences proves that you'll fit in here quite nicely and the moderator will NEVER fault you for blaming all cops....Went back and looked at the posts pertaining to this tragedy and not one poster has defended anyone that may have been negligent.  No one is saying that those responsible should not be held accountable.  So you've received reports from the investigators and are prepared to 'fire and incarcerate' even though it's an ongoing investigation?

It's funny that some posters will call for firings and punishment at the local level but will turn around and defend this administration with the messes of the IRS...NSA...EPA...Benghazi....So those in charge are only accountable and responsible on the local level?.... 
 
      '

The moderator noticed your dig. Coming from someone that believes a cop is justified for emptying his gun into someone who has "something" in his hands.

Eric wrote:

The moderator noticed your dig.  Coming from someone that believes a cop is justified for emptying his gun into someone who has "something" in his hands.

Never said that but if it makes you feel better than so be it....if you want to discuss that in an adult fashion would be more than glad but when you make up things then it's impossible to discuss...

C'mon. You may not have said that "in those words", but you have made it perfectly clear how you feel about LEO's taking shots at people.

Also, you made it clear that, because the guy on Shadowlawn had smoked crack earlier in the day, a despicable "crackhead"... a word you used in the discussion, you implied that this scumbag seemingly deserved what he got.

The fact that the deputies didn't get charged with a crime only confirms my suspicion that deputies get the benefit of the doubt more often than not. Can you remember in Escambia County where a shooting by a deputy was anything but "justified"? If it has, it is a rarity.

Hey if I have a horse and don't care for it I go to jail or even a cat or dog will get me locked up for animal cruelty. How much more should those involved in caring for helpless people be punished when they are lax and fail !? Oh I know somewhere along the line our public servants became "authorities" above the law with rights and special privileges conferred on them because they wear a costume...believe me their shit still stinks..

Eric wrote:

C'mon.  You may not have said that "in those words", but you have made it perfectly clear how you feel about LEO's taking shots at people.

Also, you made it clear that, because the guy on Shadowlawn had smoked crack earlier in the day, a despicable "crackhead"... a word you used in the discussion, you implied that this scumbag seemingly deserved what he got.  

The fact that the deputies didn't get charged with a crime only confirms my suspicion that deputies get the benefit of the doubt more often than not.  Can you remember in Escambia County where a shooting by a deputy was anything but "justified"?  If it has, it is a rarity.

IF...I didn't say it then why do you insist on repeating a lie that you've made up?...But alright we'll discuss the matter once again and please this time allow me the opportunity to misspeak before inventing things.. I make my own errors without assistance.

This isn't my opinion it's the law. I said when an LEO is in a situation and he/she uses deadly force then the circumstances of utilizing that force will be investigated here in FL by FDLE... If an officer shoots once...twice...three times is not the issue it's whether they were justified in using deadly force in that situation. Now, let me clarify..NEVER said that it looked good that the deputies fired (what was it 15 shots) and missed but if they were justified in their actions then they were in a lawful situation conducting their business. NEVER said anything about emptying a magazine into someone but I'll clarify that also...

I posted about the Sheriff in Pasco Co (I think) that had an officer and his k-9 partner murdered during what was called a routine traffic stop. Later, several deputies discovered the armed suspect in a wooded area and he refused to comply with the orders given and he was shot and killed. The officers shot something like 150 plus rounds and when asked about that amount the Sheriff answered...we ran out of ammo. Not my story but this is what was reported. Make no mistake if you think I'd shed a tear for a murdering sob then you're wrong and would never apologize. The suspects family attempted to sue the department for 'excessive force' (amount of shots fired) and the case was dismissed because they had the right to use deadly force in that situation...Again not my opinion...the law ruled that.

In the case here...once again you are mistaken...never said he deserved what he got...that's not my call...The individual admitted to smoking crack and that certainly may have been a reason that he did not comply with orders given by the officers...I was not there and can only go by their testimony...They said the suspect reached into the vehicle, had something shiny in his hand and lunged at them...that's what they said...they were there. Under those circumstances based on their testimony it was justified...once again not my opinion but the law...There will always be debate/opinions but FDLE ruled on the case...

Suspicion and distrust may be explainable or understandable but doesn't mean it's the law. There is nothing anyone can say because that's your bias and opinion against law enforcement and the system. But by you're own admission that what you've said was 'not in those words' and that I 'implied' shows that's how you (possibly others too) perceive what was posted....In the case of any excessive force...shootings...or even the jail explosion I've asked only that the investigations be concluded before jumping to conclusions...been consistent with that opinion.

I had a nice conversation with a deputy today. I struck up the conversation and we both enjoyed the discussion.

Most deputies are good people. I have been to deputies' homes for dinner and consider the few I know "friends".

I just don't put all deputies on a pedestal. They are not beyond reproach. I have had bad experiences with LEOs lying and it has cost me over a thousand dollars because of their lies. Yes, I don't trust all deputies, but I have first-hand experience to make me feel this way.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Hey if I have a horse and don't care for it I go to jail or even a cat or dog will get me locked up for animal cruelty. How much more should those involved in caring for helpless people be punished when they are lax and fail !? Oh I know somewhere along the line our public servants became "authorities" above the law with rights and special privileges conferred on them because they wear a costume...believe me their shit still stinks..

This is a reminder of the other forum and why people became disinterested in it....adds nothing to the conversation and is beneath any attempt to discuss...

MW, you expressed so much disgust at the guy on Shadowlawn, you spelled CRACKHEAD in all caps.

Sure, the LEOs told a good story and it was believed. It is their story against his. There are plenty of stories where the LEOs tell a good story to back up their position, only to have them proven in a lie.

Eric wrote:

I had a nice conversation with a deputy today.  I struck up the conversation and we both enjoyed the discussion.

Most deputies are good people.  I have been to deputies' homes for dinner and consider the few I know "friends".

I just don't put all deputies on a pedestal.  They are not beyond reproach.  I have had bad experiences with LEOs lying and it has cost me over a thousand dollars because of their lies.  Yes, I don't trust all deputies, but I have first-hand experience to make me feel this way.  

 
    Couldn't agree more...they or anyone shouldn't be place on a 'pedestal' or be beyond 'reproach' or above the law...Don't know anyone that trusts everyone...Like all human beings we have to deal with our biased views based on experiences on an individual basis...Again if capitalization of crackhead was offensive then so be it...it was capitalized as an attention getter and it did. No disgust about his use/abuse of crack and once again you've decided that's what I meant but that doesn't make it true....The guy was being portrayed on the forum and in the media as a victim that did nothing to contribute to this incident but that was found not to be true....Some believe their testimony some don't but the entire discussion was or should have been whether they were justified and they were...

I just saw this on Live Leak.com

And here is a guy that was killed by LEOs and I agree that he probably got what was coming to him.  Driving what appeared to be a stolen motorcycle, the suspect struggled with LEOs, was cuffed and put into a cruiser, where he produced a gun, shot out a window and attempted to escape.  Although it appeared he wasn't shooting at LEOs, he was using a firearm in the commission of a felony and deadly force was justified.



Sorry about taking the thread off topic.

Cuffed and produced a gun. What a crock.

Eric wrote:

I just saw this on Live Leak.com

And here is a guy that was killed by LEOs and I agree that he probably got what was coming to him.  Driving what appeared to be a stolen motorcycle, the suspect struggled with LEOs, was cuffed and put into a cruiser, where he produced a gun, shot out a window and attempted to escape.  Although it appeared he wasn't shooting at LEOs, he was using a firearm in the commission of a felony and deadly force was justified.



Sorry about taking the thread off topic.

That happens more than it should. Amazing what happens after a suspect has already been 'searched'. For males there is a reluctance to check/search certain areas and sadly it can be deadly...The officers involved will certainly be questioned as to how this wasn't discovered during the search...

Well, the PNJ reported today that inmates are being denied their access to their attorneys. It's not just inmates reporting it, it's the attorneys too. This is an obvious violation of state law.

Are us taxpayers going to have to pay all these inmates restitution because our jail authorities think they can get by with whatever they so choose? There are some heads that need to roll in this situation, and it ain't the heads of the inmates or attorneys I'm talking about. I don't want my taxes raised because of the doofuses at the jail who think they can do anything they want to and get away with it.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Cuffed and produced a gun. What a crock.

The video clearly showed him cuffed behing his back.. He slipped his hands under himself to the front and pulled a pistol from the left front side of his pants.. HOW is that a crock?????

I have to agree that the guy who pulled the cuffs under his butt is not only very athletic but also a danger to the officers around him. He did have a gun and it didn't look like one the cops should have missed when searching him. It was right there in his pants pocket. But he got loose, got out of the car and all we heard is shooting after that. I'd have to give the officers every benefit of the doubt in this case. This man was definitely armed and intent on getting away and using the gun if he had to. I was surprised the window of the car was open for him to jump out of though. 2 errors on the part of the police- not searching properly and leaving the window open. The search was really botched. The cop was searching the guy while putting him in the car and only reached into one of his pockets, the right one. The gun was in the left. What- didn't the cop realized he had pockets on both sides of his pants?
He probably needed shooting anyhow.

Oh I confused it with a different case when a kid was cuffed and shot himself in the head with a hidden gun...sorry I didn't watch the video. I watched too many of the beat down, shoot down,.... cops having fun  videos. Gets old.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/07/handcuffed-teen-shoots-himself-houston-police-car_n_2256830.html

There's a couple of very sad situations on the link Teo. It's too bad the kids are so desperate to hurt themselves that they would do it even after they're being taken in to a center to get some help.
I imagine that the cops are a little gentler with teenagers like that when they handcuff them because they know it's a mental health situation, so maybe that's why they missed the guns.
I can't imagine they left the guns on the kids intentionally.


Those are just pretty much tragedies.

Jake92 wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Cuffed and produced a gun. What a crock.

The video clearly showed him cuffed behing his back..  He slipped his hands under himself to the front and pulled a pistol from the left front side of his pants..  HOW is that a crock?????

Because when you believe a certain way then facts are not even considered....The 'crock' is the inability to even consider that this has happened and yet attempt to be credible by blaming cops not matter the circumstance...

BINGO!!! I always give LEO's respect and the benefit of the doubt until they PROVE to me that they do not deserve it, NOT the other way around where they are all dirty until they prove they are not like some people do..

Jake92 wrote:

BINGO!!!  I always give LEO's respect and the benefit of the doubt until they PROVE to me that they do not deserve it, NOT the other way around where they are all dirty until they prove they are not like some people do..

 
     Correct.. judge on an individual basis and not everyone because of some... But what's funny reading some of the posts is that they want heads to roll...people held accountable ... take responsibility.... even incarcerated...and then on other topics defend and accept the conduct of those in charge of...the IRS...NSA...EPA...etc.,  So basically expect/demand laws be followed and individuals held accountable on the local level but depending on party affiliation it's acceptable in Washington DC?...Louis Lerner of IRS Shame...got a PAID six month vacation then allowed to retire on a 50K plus retirement and has never accepted responsibility or held accountable...but if a corrections supervisor in the jail explosion incident received treatment like this bet there would be a different opinion...What's the difference?...

No such thing as a good cop. They stopped being good about the time SWAT was created. I am entitled to my opinion, so ain't freedom great ? Freedom that the American legal system has taken away from what, two and a half million people so they can keep their private prison slave factories manned to full capacity ? Nope if there is a bad cop and the good one's cover for him then they are just as bad. Happens every day..us/them BS. So I treat all rattlesnakes as dangerous, you can do however you like. Just don't try to make me drop my guard, just don't talk to cops IMHO.

The same thing goes for the politicians in DC too then.. ALL of them are crooked, including the head crook Obama....

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

No such thing as a good cop. They stopped being good about the time SWAT was created. I am entitled to my opinion, so ain't freedom great ? Freedom that the American legal system has taken away from what, two and a half million people so they can keep their private prison slave factories manned to full capacity ? Nope if there is a bad cop and the good one's cover for him then they are just as bad. Happens every day..us/them BS. So I treat all rattlesnakes as dangerous, you can do however you like. Just don't try to make me drop my guard, just don't talk to cops IMHO.

WOW.... "private prison slave factories"...guess it's true that everyone there is innocent...

Jake92 wrote:

The same thing goes for the politicians in DC too then..  ALL of them are crooked, including the head crook Obama....

Personally...trust law enforcement officers more than politicians...