Violence breaks out near site of vigil for teen killed by police

Chrissy* wrote:

Eric wrote:

A shot to the thigh would have incapacitated him.

Personally, I don't think cops should be killing people if a reasonable alternative exists.  The kid wasn't a threat to him when the fatal shots were fired.  The cop wasn't facing a perceptible threat.  I'm sure he was pissed that the kid messed up his face a bit, but that ain't reason enough to kill the kid.

oh I see. you think all police are sharp shooters. they are not.

I bet you think that police also do not have reactions to when they are violently attacked?

facts are, police have the RIGHT to ensure a violent criminal does not escape arrest. it is for public safety.

now you can widdle that down any way you wish, but again, be careful because if you neuter police so much, it might end up being all you bad assed men in non uniform who have to protect the populace. and I really don't think that would work out.

Testosterone or adrenaline may have played a part, but the boy, with all his faults, was unarmed and didn't deserve to be shot 6 times, two in the head... with the killing shot trajectory postulated to come from a direction where he was getting face down on his knees.  The killing shot entered from the top of his head, for God sakes.

Cops on the streets are not executioners, and THAT is what this boy got... an execution by a trigger-happy LEO, In my opinion, of course.

It could also be explained had brown been "bum rushing" the cop.

The boy was 6'4". The killing shot entered the top of his head. The boy was bent WAY over when killed.

Who knows what happened, I don't. But I believe this was a senseless killing and could have been avoided without the taking of a life. As far as the cop was concerned, the kid was jaywalking... walking down the road where he shouldn't have been. Shit happened, probably bravado on both sides that escalated, but in the end, an unarmed young man wound up dead, and face down with 6 bullets in him. The difference is that the cop had the gun and is a LEO. If the kid had pumped 6 shots into the LEO, there would be no question that the kid would have been arrested and beaten mercilessly because "he was resisting".

Am I biased? You're damn right I am.

Look . I don't think any of us want or support a police state

But we need to be very careful here

This ain't no teeny little innOcents boy that they've tried to make out

If this big giant man, hes a man. Old enough to vote and go to war. Shown to be violent minutes before, probaly thought this cop knew what he just did. It appears he beat the shot out of the cop and if he was rushing him like a witness said. He got what he should have got.

We can not start giving violent crooks so much lee way that police can't protect themselves much less us.

And trust me. The gov would love to make it out like the whole country is anti cop. What better reason to dis arm you?

Be careful

I don't agree that "he got what he should have got".  Sorry, but I just don't agree... at all.

The cops are there to protect us... not kill us with impunity.

Eric wrote:

I don't agree that "he got what he should have got".  Sorry, but I just don't agree... at all.

The cops are there to protect us... not kill us with impunity.

You are not a dumbass Eric...

He could have been falling from the previous shot.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Eric wrote:

I don't agree that "he got what he should have got".  Sorry, but I just don't agree... at all.

The cops are there to protect us... not kill us with impunity.

You are not a dumbass Eric...

Close... but not quite... lol.

A dumbass is a person who thinks they can jump a officer of the law and kick his ass and then not get shot

That guy is a big guy. Proven bully.

Had the cop been killed by the crook it would not have barely made the news

And people wonder why cops have to stick together

After all. I guess they are not humans

Yeah, the cop was real nice at first, reportedly saying "Hey, get the f* out of the road." Starting shit from the get-go. Then shoots and kills the young man when he elicits a violent reaction to his pompous, smart-assed attitude.

Justice... Yeah, that's the ticket.

Eric wrote:

Yeah, the cop was real nice at first, reportedly saying "Hey, get the f* out of the road."  Starting shit from the get-go.  Then shoots and kills the young man when he elicits a violent reaction to his pompous, smart-assed attitude.

Justice... Yeah, that's the ticket.

Are you aware you are taking the word of a thug who had just participated in a robbery? Because that's who said the cop said that.

I realize this is a emotional subject. But in order to find a honest answer, emotions need to be removed from the equation.

Think about what your allowing the media to play on your emotions do. You will in fact help create a society where thugs are good, cops are bad. It really is that simple and people are being played like a harp.

Chrissy* wrote:

Eric wrote:

Yeah, the cop was real nice at first, reportedly saying "Hey, get the f* out of the road."  Starting shit from the get-go.  Then shoots and kills the young man when he elicits a violent reaction to his pompous, smart-assed attitude.

Justice... Yeah, that's the ticket.

Are you aware you are taking the word of a thug who had just participated in a robbery? Because that's who said the cop said that.

I realize this is a emotional subject. But in order to find a honest answer, emotions need to be removed from the equation.

Think about what your allowing the media to play on your emotions do. You will in fact help create a society where thugs are good, cops are bad. It really is that simple and people are being played like a harp.

 
    Reading this thread is just another reminder as to not comment until there has been an investigation and facts/evidence can be introduced.  The account of the situation has changed from the beginning and as usual there is more to the story than first reported.  It's always easy to second guess or to assume that the first reports will be the final factual account and it would seem that some would learn lessons before making some outrageous comments...
 
   Just read a stat:  Every 53 hours a Law Enforcement Officer is killed in the line of duty....Too bad some of the smartass comments that are made on a regular basis don't focus on a larger problem in society....Where's the outrage from all those that are so quick to speak out when the issue is the other way around?....

It's a foregone conclusion. The cop will not be indicted and his buddies will slap him on the back for getting rid of another dirtbag.

At least that's what usually happens. The deck is stacked. All benefit of the doubt automatically goes to the LEO.

Meanwhile, another son is buried.

Sorry if my compassion for my fellow man shows.

Eric wrote:

It's a foregone conclusion.  The cop will not be indicted and his buddies will slap him on the back for getting rid of another dirtbag.

At least that's what usually happens.  The deck is stacked.  All benefit of the doubt automatically goes to the LEO.

Meanwhile, another son is buried.  

Sorry if my compassion for my fellow man shows.

 
    Should the officer be indicted?....What are the facts...laws to support an indictment?....Again... has the investigation concluded?  Are all the facts in on this case?....This has taken a completely different turn than originally reported...Guess that means the coroners/medial examiner's in this case are part of the stacked deck with the police...Did they cover up there were no shots to the back of the body?....Reports are that there are 12 or more witnesses that say the individual charged the officer after battering him...they on the take also?  
 
     Of course the loss of life is regrettable and there is nothing and just because opinions are different on this matter doesn't indicate that there is a void of compassion on either side...especially with the Brown Family...they are left looking for answers that will probably offer no comfort no matter the final outcome....
 
      Sadly the focus has shifted from the incident to now the thugs rioting in the streets using violence against innocent individuals...The media and the usual race baiters are right in the middle working their magic and making the situation worse if that's possible...Wonder just how many of the looters and those throwing chunks of cement at officers really give a crap about Brown....Last night...31 arrested....2 shot (not by police) and 4 Officers injured...So those that are protesting against violence are using violence...now there's some logic...

There's compassion and then there's blind prejudice based on personal biased against a specific group that produces an expected opinion....

It is good that we can discuss stuff like this.  Last night I read conjecture here on the forum about Brown charging the LEO, and now I read here about 12 or more witnesses that corroborate that scenario.  I wonder where those 12 or more folks were during the first week of this rioting.  Surely, the media didn't want to speak to them... or quote them on camera.  I guess other witnesses who said otherwise were simply mistaken.

And if the law enforcement community was so happy to release the store video and commented about the LEO being battered, why didn't they say early on that the young man charged the LEO?  If they did, I didn't see it on the national news or read about it.  (Maybe I just lead a sheltered life.)

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't you think that the situation would have been lessened by strong statements by the LEO community that the suspect was seen by witnesses to be charging at the officer when the officer fired the shots?  Have I been so out of touch on this that I only heard that the "officer was defending himself" in generic terms?

If the young man charged the LEO, the LEO would be justified in defending himself.

But I have questions that will probably never be answered.  Like, did the officer have a taser?  If so, shouldn't using a taser been preferable to using a gun on an unarmed individual?  And, if Brown had battered the officer why did he have to charge the officer if he was already in close proximity to the officer?  Obviously, Brown walked away and some exchange occurred, whether it be verbally, or shot(s) fired by the LEO... but something made Brown turn around.  

And for the record, I never said that anyone was on the "take".  I was only commenting that cops seem to be immune to prosecution.  There are a multitude of cases where cops fired dozens and even hundreds of shots at unarmed individuals and no charges were ever brought against them.  All they have to say is that they thought they were in danger and they get their free "get out of jail" pass.  And the victims are buried by their loved ones... loved ones that don't understand the injustice.

Sadly, LEOs do die in the line of service.  They left loved ones... wives, sons and daughters, and parents to grieve their loss.  But I suspect that they shoot and kill a lot more people than is the other way around.  Am I wrong here?  EDIT:  I'm not referring to LEOs killing bad guys with guns and knives... I am talking about trigger-happy LEOs killing unarmed innocent people.

http://www.copblock.org/

[quote="Eric"]It is good that we can discuss stuff like this.  Last night I read conjecture here on the forum about Brown charging the LEO, and now I read here about 12 or more witnesses that corroborate that scenario.  I wonder where those 12 or more folks were during the first week of this rioting.  Surely, the media didn't want to speak to them... or quote them on camera.  I guess other witnesses who said otherwise were simply mistaken.

And if the law enforcement community was so happy to release the store video and commented about the LEO being battered, why didn't they say early on that the young man charged the LEO?  If they did, I didn't see it on the national news or read about it.  (Maybe I just lead a sheltered life.)

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't you think that the situation would have been lessened by strong statements by the LEO community that the suspect was seen by witnesses to be charging at the officer when the officer fired the shots?  Have I been so out of touch on this that I only heard that the "officer was defending himself" in generic terms?

If the young man charged the LEO, the LEO would be justified in defending himself.

But I have questions that will probably never be answered.  Like, did the officer have a taser?  If so, shouldn't using a taser been preferable to using a gun on an unarmed individual?  And, if Brown had battered the officer why did he have to charge the officer if he was already in close proximity to the officer?  Obviously, Brown walked away and some exchange occurred, whether it be verbally, or shot(s) fired by the LEO... but something made Brown turn around.  

And for the record, I never said that anyone was on the "take".  I was only commenting that cops seem to be immune to prosecution.  There are a multitude of cases where cops fired dozens and even hundreds of shots at unarmed individuals and no charges were ever brought against them.  All they have to say is that they thought they were in danger and they get their free "get out of jail" pass.  And the victims are buried by their loved ones... loved ones that don't understand the injustice.

Sadly, LEOs do die in the line of service.  They left loved ones... wives, sons and daughters, and parents to grieve their loss.  But I suspect that they shoot and kill a lot more people than is the other way around.  Am I wrong here?  EDIT:  I'm not referring to LEOs killing bad guys with guns and knives... I am talking about trigger-happy LEOs killing unarmed innocent people.[/quot

The autopsy provided the evidence that the individual was not shot in the back walking/running away...not like witnesses/media initially reported or does that not matter?...There were no wounds to to back of the body so right away the first evidence disproves first reports...

The investigation into the incident at the store provided evidence that Brown had earlier committed crimes there...up until that point the officer didn't know of that incident...Again facts prove Brown's involvement in criminal activity...Further it possibly provided identification of Brown from the stores security cameras and provided evidence of his actions prior to the encounter with the officer...

Certainly understand why any witnesses would either be reluctant and or hesitant to come forward especially with the rioting going on for days...Per the investigation/autopsy it proved that the witnesses that claimed Brown charged the officer were proved to be factual...

There is no evidence of 'trigger happy LEO's' in this situation at this time so even the mention proves a bias in order to show that this is already a bad shoot by the officer...So because your opinion/belief that there have been a multitude of injustices [not supported by any evidence] then this has to be the same and the officer has to be wrong...and the deck is stacked...

The investigation will determine if the force used was lawful...Not every officer carries a taser...A 6'4" 300 lb suspect that has already pushed the officer and committed battery on that officer...would certainly provide evidence as to the officer's state of mind...The Police only made the statement that the officer involved sustained injuries and was treated at a hospital and that was before his name was released...Don't know what the problem is with either the statement or not releasing the name at that point in time...

The cowh once again intervened and made a statement about excessive force being used prior to ANY evidence to support that statement...is that statement harmful?...So according to the cowh the officer and other officers after the fact used excessive force and this helped calm the mob mentality?....

Last night there were 78 arrests in Ferguson....4 were from Ferguson....48 from St Louis...5 from other Missouri locations...and 18 from out of state [NY..California]...Does that indicate another problem in this mess?.. Not including the race baiters already present there....

I remember the bullrush description from early on... and that there was a struggle both inside and outside of the car. That narrative simply didn't sell as well as the other.

mediawatcher wrote:

Eric wrote:

It is good that we can discuss stuff like this.  Last night I read conjecture here on the forum about Brown charging the LEO, and now I read here about 12 or more witnesses that corroborate that scenario.  I wonder where those 12 or more folks were during the first week of this rioting.  Surely, the media didn't want to speak to them... or quote them on camera.  I guess other witnesses who said otherwise were simply mistaken.

And if the law enforcement community was so happy to release the store video and commented about the LEO being battered, why didn't they say early on that the young man charged the LEO?  If they did, I didn't see it on the national news or read about it.  (Maybe I just lead a sheltered life.)

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't you think that the situation would have been lessened by strong statements by the LEO community that the suspect was seen by witnesses to be charging at the officer when the officer fired the shots?  Have I been so out of touch on this that I only heard that the "officer was defending himself" in generic terms?

If the young man charged the LEO, the LEO would be justified in defending himself.

But I have questions that will probably never be answered.  Like, did the officer have a taser?  If so, shouldn't using a taser been preferable to using a gun on an unarmed individual?  And, if Brown had battered the officer why did he have to charge the officer if he was already in close proximity to the officer?  Obviously, Brown walked away and some exchange occurred, whether it be verbally, or shot(s) fired by the LEO... but something made Brown turn around.  

And for the record, I never said that anyone was on the "take".  I was only commenting that cops seem to be immune to prosecution.  There are a multitude of cases where cops fired dozens and even hundreds of shots at unarmed individuals and no charges were ever brought against them.  All they have to say is that they thought they were in danger and they get their free "get out of jail" pass.  And the victims are buried by their loved ones... loved ones that don't understand the injustice.

Sadly, LEOs do die in the line of service.  They left loved ones... wives, sons and daughters, and parents to grieve their loss.  But I suspect that they shoot and kill a lot more people than is the other way around.  Am I wrong here?  EDIT:  I'm not referring to LEOs killing bad guys with guns and knives... I am talking about trigger-happy LEOs killing unarmed innocent people.[/quot

        The autopsy provided the evidence that the individual was not  shot in the back walking/running away...not like witnesses/media initially reported or does that not matter?...There were no wounds to to back of the body so right away the first evidence disproves first reports...

        The investigation into the incident at the store provided evidence that Brown had earlier committed crimes there...up until that point the officer didn't know of that incident...Again facts prove Brown's involvement in criminal activity...Further it possibly provided identification of Brown from the stores security cameras and provided evidence of his actions prior to the encounter with the officer...

         Certainly understand why any witnesses would either be reluctant and or hesitant to come forward especially with the rioting going on for days...Per the investigation/autopsy it proved that the witnesses that claimed Brown charged the officer were proved to be factual...

          There is no evidence of 'trigger happy LEO's' in this situation at this time so even the mention proves a bias in order to show that this is already a bad shoot by the officer...So because your opinion/belief that there have been a multitude of injustices [not supported by any evidence] then this has to be the same and the officer has to be wrong...and the deck is stacked...

           The investigation will determine if the force used was lawful...Not every officer carries a taser...A 6'4" 300 lb suspect that has already pushed the officer and committed battery on that officer...would certainly provide evidence as to the officer's state of mind...The Police only made the statement that the officer involved sustained injuries and was treated at a hospital and that was before his name was released...Don't know what the problem is with either the statement or not releasing the name at that point in time...

            The cowh once again intervened and made a statement about excessive force being used prior to ANY evidence to support that statement...is that statement harmful?...So according to the cowh the officer and other officers after the fact used excessive force and this helped calm the mob mentality?....            

           Last night there were 78 arrests in Ferguson....4 were from Ferguson....48 from St Louis...5 from other Missouri locations...and 18 from out of state [NY..California]...Does that indicate another problem in this mess?.. Not including the race baiters already present there....

           

           

           

         

Sorry, but when posts look like this it is too much for my feeble mind to straighten out. Did not read.

After reading reports that came out today, I feel that Brown was justifiably shot.  Until today, I hadn't seen any evidence that would convince me to side with the LEO.  

If Brown was running flat-out like a freight train toward the LEO after battering the officer already, the LEO can justifiably fear for his safety and should take necessary steps to protect his life.

I just wish that there had been a less lethal way of neutralizing Brown.

The black community will continue to be closed-minded about any evidence that paints Brown as the aggressor.  Perhaps, if the officer had been black this wouldn't have hit the fan.

Question.  Did the media have access to these witness reports early on?

The media loves the on going issues. Just like in the Trayvon Martin case. The injuries to Zimmerman were ignored, his 911 call was edited by MSNBC, and Zimmerman was listed as a white Hispanic. All done to cause an uproar.

As usual... you got it Joni. The narrative will never carry the alternative explanation.

Joanimaroni wrote:

The media loves the on going issues. Just like in the Trayvon Martin case. The injuries to Zimmerman were ignored, his 911 call was edited by MSNBC, and Zimmerman was listed as a white Hispanic. All done to cause an uproar.

The media certainly has a responsibility in how this incident took place and their irresponsibility in reporting...You'd think that there would be a lesson learned from the Martin Case but there hasn't...same race baiting from the same names...outside instigators...ignoring the evidence of the wounds....and once again the interjection of the cowh and his AG...

PkrBum wrote:

I remember the bullrush description from early on... and that there was a struggle both inside and outside of the car. That narrative simply didn't sell as well as the other.

I recall that as well. And exactly. The media played this and they do have some responsibility for what has now occurred. They need to report the friggin news and stop injecting their agenda into it.

I also recall that holder did not want the store video released.

So there were numerous people/agencies with holding information and that led to the wrong idea about what occurred. Because not everyone digs into issues, most just sit on the couch and absorb. And a lot of misinformation and assumptions was pushed on the populace.

And yes, its sad. But it is also clear brown knew he had just robbed a store and was high. Wonder where the drugs went? Anyway, he didn't want to be arrested. He cant read the cops mind to know he didn't know. He attacked the cop, then left when the gun went off in the car, cop gets out, says freeze, he turns around and makes a gunner run for the cop, gets unloaded on. This is my take so far.

Now there are a bunch of crazy assed people wanting justice. And justice was served Im afraid in this case.

NOW WHAT?

The officer has a bounty on him by the black panthers. And white cops in the area will be afraid to fight crime because they will not want a scene like this.

We are going down the tubes and our gov wants a race war. wants it bad!

IMO. .....The attorney for the Brown's and Mike's parents opened the door for the video going public. They portrayed Mike Brown as a good kid, never in trouble, and starting college in a week.

It was set up to make him guilty of just walking. I know some cops are bad apples but it did not make any sense to me that a cop would execute a guy without reason with witnesses all around.