The Gulf is diseased and Dying !...

http://www.infowars.com/the-gulf-of-mexico-is-still-dying-pathogenic-micro-organisms-proliferate-due-to-polluted-and-poisoned-bioterrain/

Conclusion:

The basic story is that the Gulf of Mexico is slowly dying. How and why it is dying is not a narrative the EPA, CDC, US Coast Guard or NIH is ever likely to publish. Taken to the next level of understanding, it becomes quite obvious that the predominant environmental profile of the geographic location in which we live will always be reflected by our own individual bioterrain (environmental profile). If an individual lives near Fukushima for any length of time, then radiation will show up in their body. If they work and play downwind from a biomass incinerator, those airborne contaminants will in time accumulate in his or her body.

Likewise, the GOM has its own environmental profile which affects all who live near it, work in or on it, as well as eat the catch from its waters. Even those who live at a distance can be affected by the GOM’s chemical profile to the extent that the regional hydrological cycle brings moisture and chemicals (remember Acid Rain) from the GOM over their homes and businesses. The massive spraying of Corexit throughout the Gulf has only exacerbated this situation to the extent that such dispersants are still permitted to ‘disappear’ both new and old oil spills.

Although the first responsibility of government is to safeguard and protect the citizenry, this rarely happens in contemporary society. Because of the overwhelming power and influence that Corporate America now exerts at very level of government, corporate profits and income lines almost always trump human health concerns and environmental protection[2]. Similarly, the shareholders’ interests, even when in a distant land, often take precedence over the welfare of the local communities which are deeply affected by environmentally-destructive corporate behavior.

In closing, it is indisputable that the Gulf of Mexico will continue to absorb a toxic burden well beyond its capacity to effectively process. As the dead zones enlarge and start to merge with each other, perhaps the people who depend on this great body of water will reach a breaking point. Only when there is a sufficient level of collective intolerance will the forces, and resources, become available to start taking back our Gulf. Then, we might return to a time when the GOM looked like this:

Accurate assessment, I believe.

The Chesapeake Bay comes to mind......

How about a pic of a boy "swimming" in China.  Wow!



or, how about this one?

Agreed that the gulf is in big trouble. The problem is that since it really isn't owned, every single governmental entity will pass along the buck to another. As for Florida, the state and feds won't react until revenues from endless red tides or jellyfish invasions start affecting tax revenues by at least 10-15 percent.

Saving the gulf for the sake of the gulf is not exactly top priority in and legislative house.

One of the major problems, as I see it anyway, is that major pollution comes from agriculture and industrial runoff, and most of that doesn't come from states that border the Gulf.

Outta sight, not my problem, bro.

Confirmed here, Eric:

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/2014/07/30/lurking-red-tide-bloom-gloomy-outlook/13352057/

Red tide has come and gone for many years.  It pops up every few years.  It used to start along the West Coast of Florida near Fort Myers and march North up the West coast of Florida.

I remember being in Panama City Beach, staying a week at a waterfront campground space in the State park, and smelling dead fish, eyes red from the toxic smells...

I thought the Red Tide was from Gymnodinium brevis in this area.  That article said it was Karenia brevis now.

I only read the printed commentary , not the link.

first of all, Ill be the first to disagree that corexit, which is a detergent, a surfactant is killing the entire gulf of mexico. Which btw, flows in and out as all waters do into and within all other oceans, gulfs etc. It is not a enclosed water way.

Are there some limited problems caused by the act of human life, yes.

What do you suggest we do about it?

Stop drilling for oil, ban farms from using pesticides or fertilizers?

Your solutions is what I'm interested in.

Rotation of cash crops with nitrogen-fixing crops (like Alfalfa, Soybean, Cowpeas, and Peanuts) would be a great step.  These crops remove nitrogen from the air and enrich the soil.  It probably isn't the most profitable rotation possible for farmers, but it is preferable to applying fertilizer to soil and having it wash off into streams, rivers, and the Gulf.  Of course, Nitrogen isn't the only nutrient that plants need, but it is a major one.  Phosphorous also comes to mind, and it will have to be applied to the crops, I believe.

Better sewage treatment plants, instead of just straining out the big chunks.  Reuse wastewater for irrigation instead of dumping it into streams and rivers.

Better terracing of fields and planting buffers around the low sides of fields to absorb runoff.

Finding biological controls to pests... bugs that eat the bad bugs.  And, ahem, using bug resistant strains of seeds whenever possible.

The Gulf doesn't flush much.  Yeah, there are some currents.  

Here is a map of the ever increasing dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico.  This graphic from NOAA, was generated in 2010, and it was huge... 7,722 Square Miles.



NOAA:

Quote :

The dead, or hypoxic, zone is fueled by nutrient runoff from agricultural and other human activities in the Mississippi River watershed, which stimulates an overgrowth of algae that sinks, decomposes and consumes most of the life-giving oxygen supply in bottom waters. The Gulf of Mexico dead zone is of particular concern because it threatens valuable commercial and recreational Gulf fisheries that generate about $2.8 billion annually.

Edit: I just read where the USGS says 1,568,000 metric tons of Nitrogen was discharged into the river (per year) from 1980-1996.

All good somewhat reasonable solutions. Somewhat. Seems the cost of food would go up tremendously because I believe this would significantly decrease output causing price increase.

Im going to warn you though, I don't buy into everything the NOAA puts out. Im not saying that there are not pollutants. There are. And I agree its a problem. But to what extent is man made is where I'll debate.

Perhaps there is a slowing of the gulf stream that is causing additional sediments to not flow out.

And according to this link the gulf stream changes. So perhaps the dead zone is the area that doesn't get moved around much, You know becomes saturated with sediments for a while, stagnant. Then as the gulf stream changes, things get moved around. As in the news out today is the dead zone is smaller than usual. http://bionews-tx.com/news/2014/07/18/oxygen-depleted-dead-zone-in-gulf-of-mexico-much-smaller-than-usual-according-to-texas-am-researcher/


Good link for gulfstream, you can also see the seasonal plots on this link. > http://oceancurrents.rsmas.miami.edu/atlantic/gulf-stream.html



So is it possible that the gulf has a dead zone and it is natural due to how the gulf stream flows and pulls the water in and out of the gulf?

Im not saying that the extra sediments don't concentrate the problem. Id agree with that.

I don't think it is sediments... It is dissolved chemicals and pollutants in the river. The sediments aren't making it down the river, and as a result, the lower Louisiana delta is going underwater. It simply isn't getting flooded with sediments anymore.

If it was pollutants coming into the Gulf from somewhere else, the dead zone wouldn't be near the Mississippi River.

When America's toilet flushes, it comes out at Louisiana.

Look at the swimming advisories in Pensacola as an example. When we get a heavy rain, the bacteriological levels go way up and they have to close the bayous to swimming. I was in charge of the sampling for five years, so, I know. In addition to bacteria, fertilizers and pesticides and God knows what gets flushed off the land too. The same thing happens with runoff in the Mississippi watershed in catastrophic proportions.

The pollution isn't coming from the Bahamas where the waters are clear; it comes down the Mississippi. They don't call it "The Big Muddy" for nuttin.

Little old Escambia County generates over 30 MILLION gallons of sewage wastewater per day. Just think of how much sewage is dumped into America's biggest watershed, the Mississippi basin every day. It is mind boggling. Most of the treated sewage is pumped into the river, too.

Oh, the pollution is coming from us, guaranteed.

I almost feel like we changed topics from dead zone to pollutants

I don't have time now to really get into this. And I want to because that's how I learn

And I agree about the pollution but we need to remenber the earth has her systems to keep things in place. The water cycle for one as far as the senate your describing. Although everything earth gives up is exactly what is returned, a little displaced sometimes.

Back to dead zones, I understand that is a area that is low in oxygen. And that senatio I described dealing with current flow could cause a sediment concentration in a given area most likely centrally located in the gulf but not necessarily.

And I must have missed something because I don't get the connection of parts of loisianna sinking. I always thought they were sinking because they are on top of collapsing salt domes

Sediment is particulate matter, particles of sand and grit and carried by swiftly moving water.  The pollution that is causing the dead zone is chemical in nature, dissolved in the waters of the Mississippi, not sediment.

You keep talking about sediment causing the problem, so I pointed out that sediment isn't a major factor of the dead zone.  Man-made flood control structures prevent the sediment from flowing down the river like it used to.  Sediment used to naturally flow down the river, carried by currents and the sediment would fall out of the river when the river flow slows at the Gulf.  This is how the Mississippi River delta got built.  Heavy river flows would flood the delta periodically and sediment would be deposited on top of the delta lands, keeping them built up.  This isn't happening much anymore and the land is sinking.  Rising sea levels are not helping either.

The dissolved nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorous carried down the Mississippi are the problem.  They feed algae in the gulf and the algae robs oxygen from the water when the algae dies and decomposes.  Critters and fish need the oxygen to survive and without it, they die... hence a dead zone.

According to a 1998 article in the New York Times:

Quote :

The scientists trace the trouble to high levels of nutrients, in particular nitrogen, that flow out of the Mississippi and into the gulf. As in other coastal areas, these rich stores of nutrients feed algal populations which explode during the summer, producing oxygen, as all plants do. This oxygen stays near the gulf's surface. However, these blooms eventually fall to the ocean floor. When bacteria begin decomposing the dead algae, they deplete the oxygen from the ocean bottom, sometimes to the point where none is left.

Here's an interesting tidbit I stumbled across at a dive site ARTICLE:

Quote :

Taming a River

In addition to increased nitrogen levels from the Mississippi River basin, other factors contribute to the dead zone. Before humans tinkered with the mighty Mississippi in an attempt to control flooding, the river had the ability to spill over its banks when it got too full. The excess water would seep into belts of natural vegetation along the river, called riparian zones, and into wetlands. Both riparian zones and wetlands act as filters, cleansing flood water of excess nutrients.

Landscape changes in the basin have hampered the river’s ability to rid itself of excess nutrients. The river has been diverted, straightened and levied in many places. Also, most of the original freshwater wetlands and riparian zones in the basin are gone. Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Iowa have drained more than 80 percent of their wetlands. Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri and Wisconsin collectively have lost 35 million acres of wetlands over the past 200 years.

Nitrogen is a gas in its natural state. And its in all living things, including us. So if fertilizers are the problem then it is organic compound which would cause a sediment.

Is the Mississippi river the only thing causing the dead zone? And do we have proof there was never a dead zone before? I mean sometimes we didn't have the technology before to measure things then when we get it we act like it is something new to our environment.

Not all dead zones are caused by pollution. The largest dead zone in the world, the lower portion of the Black Sea, occurs naturally
http://education.nationalgeographic.com/education/encyclopedia/dead-zone/?ar_a=1

Im guessing they are admitting it occurs naturally in the black sea because they cant blame it on anything else? Just a thought.

I could quote a dozen, maybe two dozen sites that say that the Dead Zone is because of the Mississippi River and it's nutrients of Nitrogen and Phosphorous.  Want me to do that?  Would you be convinced then?

Sediment? No, Nitrogen is NOT a sediment. It is a dissolved nutrient... not a sediment.

Eric wrote:

I could quote a dozen, maybe two dozen sites that say that the Dead Zone is because of the Mississippi River and it's nutrients of Nitrogen and Phosphorous.  Want me to do that?  Would you be convinced then?

Sediment?  No, Nitrogen is NOT a sediment.  It is a dissolved nutrient... not a sediment.

I think you misunderstand me.

Im not denying that there are dead zones. There are. And many of them occur naturally. I am sure you have already looked this fact up.

I am also not denying that there is pollution, I am a critic of polluters. I think you've known me long enough to know that.

I'm just having a conversation with you about it. not intending to frustrate you. I like to wonder about things. When you have a conversation with someone on the beach your not sitting there googling all your answers. That makes for great conversation.

My point is, there have always been dead zones. We just didn't know how to measure them.



The second largest zone of coastal hypoxia (oxygen-depleted waters) in the world is found on the northern Gulf of Mexico continental shelf adjacent to the outflows of the Mississippi and Atchafalaya Rivers. The combination of high fresh- water discharge, wind mixing, regional circulation, and summer warming controls the strength of stratification that goes through a well-defined seasonal cycle. The physical structure of the water column and high nutrient loads that enhance primary production lead to an annual formation of the hypoxic water mass that is dominant from spring through late summer. Paleoindicators in dated sediment cores indicate that hypoxic conditions likely began to appear around the turn of the last century and became more severe since the 1950s as the nitrate flux from the Mississippi River to the Gulf of Mexico tripled. Whereas increased nutrients enhance the production of some organ- isms, others are eliminated from water masses (they either emigrate from the area or die) where the oxygen level falls below 2 mg 1-1 or lower for a prolonged period. A hypoxia-stressed benthos is typified by short-lived, smaller surface deposit-feeding polychaetes and the absence of marine invertebrates such as pericaridean crustaceans, bivalves, gastropods, and ophiuroids. The changes in benthic communities, along with the low dissolved oxygen, result in altered sediment structure and sediment biogeo- chemical cycles. Important fisheries are variably affected by increased or decreased food supplies, mortality, forced migration, reduction in suitable habitat, increased sus- ceptibility to predation, and disruption of life cycles.
INTRODUCTION
Waters with less than full oxygen saturation occur in many parts of the world's oceans (Kamykowski & Zentara 1990). Hypoxic (low oxygen) and anoxic (no oxy- gen) waters have existed throughout geologic time

and again, I think you misunderstood me. The nitrogen is in the sediment. Nitrogen molecules are not mixing with H20 molecules here. If they are, please show me that. from my understanding sediment particles are mixed in with the water. they are not one with each other.

Nitrate removal in deep sediments of a nitrogen-rich river network:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2012JG001990/abstract

All I am saying is it appears to me that because the Mississippi river flows so abundantly through so much, it brings forth a lot of stuff with it. . Its not logical to think we can continue mass production of food sources by altering fertilization as you suggest, its been tried. Organic farmers try this and it really isn't viable. So it seems to me the only logical thing to do is to give back the wet lands. And honestly I don't even know if that will work.

The 1910s and 1920s witness the rise of the Haber process and the Ostwald process. The Haber process produces ammonia (NH3) from methane (CH4) gas and molecular nitrogen (N2). The ammonia from the Haber process is then converted into nitric acid (HNO3) in the Ostwald process.[91] The development of synthetic fertilizer has significantly supported global population growth — it has been estimated that almost half the people on the Earth are currently fed as a result of synthetic nitrogen fertilizer use.[92]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer

So those seem to be the only obvious choices to me. Starve us, or redistrict populations.

All I am asking is for you to keep a open mind that the movement of water in the gulf does effect the naturally occurring dead zones. >

Ironically, the dead zone could be positively affected by an active hurricane season. A major contributing factor to dead zones is when water becomes stratified -- warm, fresh water settles on top of colder, saltier water. This stratification limits the aeration of deeper waters as algal blooms settle to the bottom and decay. A hurricane could stir up the Gulf waters, dispersing some of the algae and partially replenishing oxygen levels.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/dead-zone1.htm

The vibrant gulf stream as well does the same thing for dead zones as a hurricane.

It disperses the stagnant under waters/sediments.

I'm not trying to argue with you. and I am not a expert on this issue. I have learned a lot about this issue just from us talking about it. I appreciate that.

I am taking a trip to jax in the morning. My sister is in the hospital. Thank you for chatting with me. I appreciate your efforts. You are a extremely intelligent person. My IQ went up a notch just talking to you.

Later.

Sorry to be so short, Tree, but I was becoming frustrated.

I managed DEP's NW District (Pensacola-Tallahassee) Biology and Chemistry Labs.  Please believe me that nitrogen is found in what appears to be clear water with no sediment (sand or grit).  It is dissolved, just like oxygen is a gas, but is also present in water without sediment.  For further discussion, here is an article that discusses Nitrogen and Water.

From that article

Quote :

In what way and in what form does nitrogen react with water?

Nitrogen gas does not react with water. It does dissolve in water.


Solubility of nitrogen and nitrogen compounds

Nitrogen (N2) solubility at 20oC and pressure = 1 bar is approximately 20 mg/L. Nitrogen solubility may differ between compounds. Nitrogen (I) oxide solubility is 12 g/L, and nitriloacetate (salt) solubility is 640 g/L, whereas nitrogen chloride is water insoluble. Nitrates and ammonia dissolve in water readily.

Ammonia is also a nitrogen compound and it's formula is NH3, (one atom of nitrogen and three hydrogens).

There is a reason that the dead zone happens in the warmer times, and it isn't just a lack of mixing of stratified layers in the water column... although stratification plays a major role in hypoxia.  The reason is that warmer waters do not hold oxygen as well as colder waters.  This is why we have so many fish kills in the late summer... there just isn't enough oxygen in the water for fish to survive.  Fish kills are especially bad if the water is nutrified with nitrogen and phosphorous and algae blooms, further robbing the water of oxygen when bacteria gobble up the dead algae.

Fish kills do happen naturally as a result of hypoxia from too-warm waters.  It is fairly common, but with man's universal presence, it is hard to say that it is natural anymore.

Having said that, I DO NOT, nor do oodles of scientists, believe that the Gulf of Mexico's dead zone is natural.  Humans discharge millions of tons of nutrients and chemicals into the Mississippi River and the dead zone is a direct effect of this rampant pollution. There is no doubt there are natural forces at play as well, but conditions are exacerbated greatly by point (pipe) and non-point (washing off the land) discharges caused by man's influences.

And it is preferable to rotate crops versus monoculture.  Please see http://www.fao.org/ag/ca/training_materials/leaflet_rotations.pdf

More on sediment. Most of a river's sediment is suspended in the water column by agitation of swiftly moving river water. When the river reaches it's discharge point, the flow spreads out and slows dramatically and drops the bulk of it's sediment right at the confluence. Some sediment remains suspended and eventually settles out to the bottom.

I concede that sediment is also present in the dead zone, but caution that algae thrive off dissolved nitrogen in the water column, not off particulate matter suspended in the water column. Nitrogen is more readily consumed by algae when it is dissolved in the water.

Eric wrote:

More on sediment.  Most of a river's sediment is suspended in the water column by agitation of swiftly moving river water.  When the river reaches it's discharge point, the flow spreads out and slows dramatically and drops the bulk of it's sediment right at the confluence.  Some sediment remains suspended and eventually settles out to the bottom.

I concede that sediment is also present in the dead zone, but caution that algae thrive off dissolved nitrogen in the water column, not off particulate matter suspended in the water column.  Nitrogen is more readily consumed by algae when it is dissolved in the water.

Please don't get frustrated. One of the things I love about being on a forum is being able to toss ideas off the top of my head then become engaged in a debate or conversation about it. Ive learned tons of things over the years that way.

I take it you are not even going to entertain that the natural flow of the gulf stream effects these dead zones? Because it seems like you are giving man 100% credit for it. And Im not sure man deserves that much credit. See, I might give man more credit if I didn't know that there are dead zones that man has not contributed to like the black sea.

I tend to think of earth as everything connected, oceans, wind, sun, rain, ice and yes us. I don't give us as much credit for making significant changes as I do the other factors. This is just my personal observation. I'm sorry it makes you frustrated.

However, I still hold my hypothesis.   

However, a thermohaline circulation shutdown could have other major consequences apart from cooling of Europe, such as an increase in major floods and storms, a collapse of plankton stocks, warming or rainfall changes in the tropics or Alaska and Antarctica (including those from intensified El Niño effect), more frequent and intense El Niño events, or an oceanic anoxic event (oxygen (O
2) below surface levels of the stagnant oceans becomes completely depleted — a probable cause of past mass extinction events).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_of_thermohaline_circulation

In a previous post I brought up natural stratification preventing oxygenation AND the fact that warmer water holds less oxygen.  Both processes are natural events.  So, I am not saying that man caused 100% of the problem. I am not as closed-minded as you say that I am.

I do, however, believe that the tonnage of Nitrogen and Phosphorous flowing into the Mississippi River is logarithmically higher than before the white man colonized North America.  Without this heavy pollutant load, I don't think the Gulf would have a dead zone.  There may have been small pockets of hypoxic water, but NOTHING like the dead zone we're seeing in the last few decades.

Scientific American says that the Black Sea dead zone is probably caused by man.

Quote :

Dead zones occur around the world, but primarily near areas where heavy agricultural and industrial activity spill nutrients into the water and compromise its quality accordingly. Some dead zones do occur naturally, but the prevalence of them since the 1970s—when dead zones were detected in Chesapeake Bay off Maryland as well as in Scandinavia’s Kattegat Strait, the mouth of the Baltic Sea, the Black Sea and the northern Adriatic—hints at mankind’s impact.

Another university website says:

Quote :

Though bordered by just six countries — Ukraine, Russia, Georgia, Turkey, Bulgaria, and Romania — the Black Sea is impacted by at least ten more nations through the five major rivers that flow through its watershed and empty into its waters. With the population of these 16 countries exceeding 160 million, it is no wonder that human activities have contributed in major ways to the Black Sea’s plight. Pollution of every variety, invading plant and animal species introduced through human activities (such as shipping), overfishing, and wetlands loss have all taken a toll on this once-healthy sea and its tributaries.

https://www.ceoe.udel.edu/blacksea/research/index.html