I hate Arbitration Clauses.

This Supreme Court Case Could Give Corporations Even More Power to Screw Consumers

An article at Mother Jones: http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/02/supreme-court-hear-important-corporate-immunity-case

Quote :

On Wednesday, the US Supreme Court will hear a case that has the potential to give big corporations free rein to write contracts that prevent consumers from ever holding them accountable for fraud, antitrust violations, or any other abuses of consumer and worker protection laws now on the books. It's a case that hasn't gotten much attention, but should....

The conclusions of the article:

Quote :

Consumer advocates are worried about how the court's going to decide this case. Under the leadership of Chief Justice John Roberts, the court has been especially amenable to the sorts of arguments Amex is making, and the results have been pretty damaging to consumers. The Alliance for Justice has a list here of some of the types of cases that were thrown out after the court's last pro-business decision about mandatory arbitration, which allowed companies to use arbitration clauses to trump state consumer and worker protection laws. It's not pretty.

If the court rules in favor of Amex, big companies will essentially be able to immunize themselves from any legal accountability, simply by forcing customers and employees to sign a contract to get a job or a cellphone or a bank account. Civil and consumer rights laws will stay on the books, but big companies will be able to ignore them.

Has anybody gotten a car dealer to strike the arbitration clause from a purchase contract? I am not the type to sue somebody, but I despise sales contracts that force me to waive my rights under the law.

That just sucks...

No but the courts may not uphold some parts that is why they use a sever-ability clause also.

My attorneys told me the clause to waive A right to trial by a jury would not hold up to judicial review if you had to go to court,
The judge would likely hold that clause illegal.

As for all the rest of arbitration clauses no one has to settle in arbitration nor do you have to have legal council.

I have been twice with insurance companies and won both i would imagine since i was right anyway.

I wound up in arbitration with Citizen's Insurance six months after Hurricane Ivan. It was a terrible experience, and I'm not talking about Ivan.

During that six months, Citizens offered me less than half of what I had claimed. When I would not settle, they harassed me on the telephone night and day, claiming that whatever they were offering was their "final offer" and that arbitration would not help me at all. They were nasty, mean and insulting. The night before arbitration, they called me at 2330 (11:30 pm) to again, and quite rudely,provide a last offer in lieu of arbitration.

When we went to arbitration the next day, we received well over twice the amount (actually almost three times the amount ), which was considerably more than we had claimed.

I guess what I'm saying here is arbitration is not all bad. I think it depends on the integrity of the arbitrator.

Also remember this in florida i believe if you sue your own insurance company and peevail the award is treble damages good law....

PBulldog2 wrote:

I wound up in arbitration with Citizen's Insurance six months after Hurricane Ivan. It was a terrible experience, and I'm not talking about Ivan.

During that six months, Citizens offered me less than half of what I had claimed. When I would not settle, they harassed me on the telephone night and day, claiming that whatever they were offering was their "final offer" and that arbitration would not help me at all. They were nasty, mean and insulting. The night before arbitration, they called me at 2330 (11:30 pm) to again, and quite rudely,provide a last offer in lieu of arbitration.

When we went to arbitration the next day, we received well over twice the amount (actually almost three times the amount ), which was considerably more than we had claimed.

I guess what I'm saying here is arbitration is not all bad. I think it depends on the integrity of the arbitrator.

You were very, very fortunate, PB.

Our (me and my ex-husband's) best "couple" friends in the Pensacola area's custom-built dream home on Garcon Point was completely destroyed in Ivan... fairly literally leveled and all of their belongings (including invaluable family heirlooms, sadly) were destroyed. Not only that, but one of their dogs ran off and they never found him.

They were forced to continue to pay the mortgage on their non-existent Garcon Point home as well as rent for a home in which to house their family and pets until the insurance company finally settled IN 2011!! They were so worn out by that time that they settled for FAR less than what they should have, and it broke their hearts, not to mention their finances.

They were finally able to recover enough financially to buy a modest home whose backyard backs up to a canal (I guess you all call it??) out on Gulf Breeze where they can dock their boat. But of course... they lost their dream home, all family photos, family heirlooms, all their new furniture, and their poor, sweet doggie.

They are water-lovers and never understood (even after their loss!) why I insisted upon buying a home on the highest ground I could find, with the highest construction grade we could afford, in an area w/no blue roofs, where the power had been easily and quickly restored post-Ivan. I was on the first flight allowed into PNS Airport after Ivan, and spent... either 6 or 8 weeks (??) there during that stay and I knew at that time we were moving there. So, I had a perfect opportunity to check out the areas and neighborhoods that flooded, had blue roofs, where the power was out, trees and branches were an issue,... all that sort of thing. So it gave me a great perspective for the areas that we wanted and did not want to buy. I cannot COUNT how many of my colleagues and friends encouraged me/us to buy on the water... they could not understand my logic... at all. Could not have been happier with our choice. Ahhhh, except for that whole deal w/the Escambia Bay Bridge being f*ed for YEARS. ARGH!!! Nearly ripped all my hair out! lol

Insurance companies, lawyers... they're all bottom-feeders in my book.

I had ONE waterfront home on a private island. It was on Innerarity Island and I built the bottom floor more than two feet above FEMA Hurricane and Corps 100-year flood. It never got water in the bottom and I only used that level for a recreation room... pool table, hot tub, etc. The living area was the next floor up. I kept my pictures and such double-bagged in gallon ziplocs... just in case.

The house was usually 100 feet from the water, but water would rise up to the foundation like when Ivan came through. The causeway would always go under water and getting back to the house was always a pain in the patootie. Here's what it looked like during Erin or Opal as seen from the neighbor's house.

Never again will I own a waterfront home.

Wow... how did she fare during Ivan? Survive?

riceme wrote:

Wow... how did she fare during Ivan? Survive?

We had sold it by then, but they only lost a couple of shingles from Ivan. And the only reason they lost shingles was because we liked trees and some branches scraped the roof. No water got down below. Hell, I constructed a 10' x 10' shed out of the heavier corrugated fiberglass on a platform between pilings (not in view), but still on the South side of the house. They didn't have any damage to it either.

I used that room for a greenhouse in the winter and stored boat toys in it during the summer. I kinda expected it to have some damage, but it made it fine. That little bayou called Russel Bayou is a hurricane hole... a place where people bring their boats to weather a hurricane.

It was a good place for boats. It was relatively deep near the shore. My pier only went 21' from shore and the water was 4' deep.

That foundation may look flimsy, but the monolithic slab was 3 feet thick on the south side. I formed the slab with 2 x 10's treated for ground contact and did not remove them after the slab was poured.

That deck was big. We fed 50 people one time out back on the deck. My carpenters put benches along the outside. You could reach out and touch the oak trees.

Rice, yes, we were very fortunate regarding the claim settlement. I can 't imagine going through that for what- seven years? Six months almost did me in. the threats and intimidation from Citizens was the worst part. I didn't know they were legally allowed to do that. The week before the arbitration hearing, they were calling me from 0700 through about midnight, every day, telling me I would "get less" if I took it to arbitration. They were wrong.

Like you, I love the water, but I wouldn't want to have a house on the water. Hubby and I did a lot of traveling through Baldwin county today, all the way over to Fort Morgan, and I was amazed at the fact that some of the houses weren't even on stilts. There was standing water in the road at Fort Morgan from the rains last week.

It was such a gorgeous day, though! I wanted to go plop down some cash and rent one of those small houses for a week. It's so quiet and peaceful out there this time of year. Good thing I didn't have the cash, eh?

Eric, that looks like a sturdy house to me. I'll be it was hard to sell it. But then, I do get sentimental about such things.

Oh....but when I went to arbitration, I let my then-boyfriend-now-husband do the talking. He has worked in construction quite a bit, and had his own business here in town briefly. He had all the facts and figures to fight the "final" figures that had been provided by Citizens, and, in his calm way, he helped them "see the light." I wouldn't have done so well had I had to go in there on my own.

I recommend anyone who needs to attend a homeowner's insurance arbitration hearing hire a good public adjuster to go with you. That's basically what my husband did for us, although he's not a public adjuster (he should be!)

I have a dear friend who lived down at the end of Garcon Point. She is a nurse, and the sweetest person you would ever meet. Plus, she's tiny. But after Ivan, she blew a cork, went up on her blue roof and painted "State Farm is NOT your friendly neighbor!" in huge white letters on her roof. I think a picture of it taken from the air made it to Fox or MSNBC, somewhere national. They wound up losing their entire house, too. she said she found some of her belongings a quarter mile down the road.

PB, I'd betcha that your nurse friend who lived @the end of Garcon Point and my friends knew each other. My friends owned the home that was 2nd from the very end. I remember hearing about her msg to State Farm from my friends, but I'd thought it was, "State Farm is NOT your good neighbor," as their song is "Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there!" Either way, it makes no difference... same message. Small world, huh?

Like your friend, my friends are some of the kindest most generous, sweet and giving people a person could ever know. My girlfriend, the wife, had left her job in order to care for her aged mother whose Alzheimer's and poor general health had deteriorated to the point where she could no longer care for herself and live on her own. She has since passed on (just last year), but she was very independent, so most of the week she would live with my friends and for a couple of days my girlfriend would stay with her mother at her home in town. So they only had one income not only prior to Ivan, but afterward as well... all while they were forced to continue to pay the mortgage on a custom designed and built home, as well as rent for a home for their family (two children + 2 dogs, 2 cats), including room for her mother, of course. For seven years. Then they got royally screwed on their insurance settlement. It was just criminal.

It broke our hearts to watch them go through that whole experience.... absolutely heartbreaking.

Wow, Riceme. That is so heartbreaking. In retrospect, I think I remember my friend talking about the house on Garcon that was totally destroyed. My friend's house wasn't totally destroyed, but it was rendered unlivable as I recall. It's been so long.

I am not as upstanding a citizen as your friends, Rice. I think I would have offered that mortgage company a deed in lieu of foreclosure. If they wouldn't take that (which of course they wouldn't, seeing as there was no house), I would have filed bankruptcy and stiffed the.....well, I can't write it on our forum. That, or sue the insurance company for the full amount of coverage PLUS any mortgage payments made between the initial incident and settlement. One would think the insured's mortgage company and their big legal guns would get involved in issues such as this, but no, the whole thing comes down on the heads of the homeowners,

This gets my dander up. Why did their company even quibble about complete destruction of the house? Oh, I know....wind versus water, and all that hoopla. The magic loophole property insurers use so often. I know that was the major issue my friend and her husband faced.

My friends had a lawyer, and my husband and I suggested to them a couple times (trying very hard not to overstep any boundaries or offend them in any way) to get a NEW lawyer because theirs was not representing them properly. For some reason they felt... I don't know, "obligated" to her or something. In any case, they trusted her for whatever reason. Actually, it may have had more to do with finances than anything else, unfortunately. Clearly, given all the circumstances -- extenuating and otherwise -- they were really strapped for cash and in the event that they lost their case, they very likely feared sky-high lawyer fees. They had lost nearly all hope, sadly. In the end they accepted the settlement their insurance carrier offered because they'd just been worn-down and no longer had the energy to fight (plus my girlfriend HAD TO start contributing financially to the household again... part time, of course, as she was caring for her mother and two growing boys full-time), which I have no doubt was the insurance carrier's plan all along. Dirty SOBs!

I wish I could remember who their insurance carrier was.

You are correct regarding the wind vs water issue... That was at a minimum part of the problem.