Confederate Battle Flag

There is a pretty detailed account of the early Civil War at Pensacola here:

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/America/United_States/Florida/_Texts/FlaHQ/36/Civil_War_Operations_in_and_around_Pensacola*.html

Good deal, guys. Thanks. I know I can find this on my own but if you've looked and I can link then all the better!

Jake92 wrote:

I've heard that the guns at the forts couldn't reach the other forts, but did work great for protecting the entrance to the bay..  I've also heard that both sides would shoot a few times during the day, then meet for drinks and things at the local houses of ill repute during the night...  I imagine they met someplace in Gulf Breeze..  

Jake, at that link I posted above where detailed info was available, it appears that the cannons at the forts were able to reach each other.  Here is a short excerpt from that book.

Quote :

Meantime on Santa Rosa Island Colonel Brown had placed Major Arnold in command of all the Federal emplacements.  At 10 A.M., under the direct supervision of Colonel Brown, the signal gun at the flagstaff was fired — the bombardment commenced. Arnold directed that the guns of Batteries Lincoln, Cameron, and Totten should open fire upon the steamer Time and gunboat Nelms berthed at the navy yard wharf. As a secondary target in the same area Arnold designated a 10‑inch columbiad mounted on the stone wharf. Captain Duryea, in command of Battery Scott, was ordered to fire on Fort McRee and the lighthouse batteries in conjunction with the naval attack upon those installations. The guns of Fort Pickens were expected to blanket all the Rebel works.

A storm of bursting sells fell among the startled and unsuspecting Confederates. The Rebel marines manning the 10‑columbiad, after firing several shots, were observed deserting their piece. In addition the Time was repeatedly struck only escaping late in the afternoon under cover of the rain and wind storm. However, the Nelms being a small vessel made its escape at once. Having accomplished his initial fire mission Arnold directed the Federal batteries to turn their fire upon forts McRee and Barrancas, the lighthouse batteries, Wheat's battery and the church batteries. The last enumerated of these proved exceptionally annoying to the Federals due to the power and accuracy of its fire. Fire delivered by the 10‑inch columbiad on the Rebel works was well directed and appeared to be effective but the fire of the James rifles emplaced in the casemates was not.

The Confederate batteries in the neighborhood of the navy yard, upon whom the Federal attack had burst with sudden fury, were manned by the 2d Brigade, again commanded by General Dick Anderson who had recovered from the effects of the wound received at Santa Rosa Island. Within a few minutes his men had recovered from their surprise and returned a vigorous fire. To conserve badly needed ammunition Bragg ordered his men to regulate and reduce their rate of fire.

Captain Duryea, commanding Battery Scott, directed the fire of his powerful battery consisting of two 10‑inch columbiads, one 42‑pounder rifled gun, and two 10‑inch sea-coast mortars, to fire on Fort McRee and the water battery south of it. To further augment the fire of Duryea's battery upon Fort McRee Arnold ordered "the four 10‑inch sea-coast mortars in the ditch, commanded by Lieutenant Langdon, and one 13‑inch and one 12‑inch sea-coast mortars, Battery Totten, commanded by Captain Indicates a West Point graduate and gives his Class.Blunt, and one 8‑inch columbiad and two 42‑pounders in casemate, of Lieutenant Jackson's battery, to fire on Fort McRee."  It was hoped that these batteries in cooperation with the navy would be able to destroy Fort McRee. The heavy fire of these weapons ably supplemented the fire of the Niagara and the Richmond.

Fort McRee and the adjacent water battery were garrisoned by the Mississippians and Georgians of Gladden's Brigade, under the command of Colonel Indicates a West Point graduate and gives his Class.John B. Villepique. The Southerners were subjected to a storm of shot and shell. Three times during the course of the afternoon the woodwork of Fort McRee burst into flame, threatening to expel the occupants. The fires were as often extinguished. To add to the Rebels' peril their magazines were laid bare to the enemy's shells which constantly exploded around them. A further hazard was soon encountered as a wooden structure to the windward of the fort was ignited. Sparks showered from the burning building threatening º to detonate the magazines momentarily. At about this time Colonel Villepique was wounded, however the gallant South Carolinian refused evacuation to a less exposed position. His coolness and example helped inspire his men with confidence, and enabled them to hold a position which at times seemed untenable.

Out at Fort Pickens, there is a huge wall with major damage.  It is near the NorthWest "side" of the fort.  Maybe I am wrong, but I seem to remember that there was a magazine there that was hit by a shell from Fort Barrancas and the magazine (gunpowder stores) blew up, damaging that wall.





Edit:  The 8-inch columbiad mentioned above had a range of up to 3,800 yards (over 2 miles), and it was just over a mile across Pensacola Bay (see map measures below)

Here is a listing of Ordnance at the forts.  The cannons shown in color probably have range to shoot across the bay.  The above referenced book provided the listing and this table provided the ranges of the cannons.

Fort Barrancas. Forty-four sea-coast and garrison cannon and 43 carriages, viz.: Thirteen 8‑inch columbiads (range 2+ miles) and howitzers; two 10‑inch mortars (range 2.4 miles), and eleven 32‑pounders (range 1.09 mi.), ten 18‑pounders (range .9 mi.), and three 19‑pounders; 3,152 projectiles for the same; 20,244 pounds of powder, and 2,966 cartridge bags.

Barrancas Barracks. A field battery, consisting of four 6‑pounder guns (.68 mi.) and two 12‑pounder howitzers (.6 mi.), with carriages, and six caissons, with 300 projectiles and 270 cartridge bags for same.

Fort Pickens. Two hundred and one sea-coast and garrison cannon, viz.: Four 10‑inch columbiads (2.75 mi.) and four 10‑inch mortars (2.41 mi.), fifty 8‑inch (1.02 mi.) and flanking howitzers, and two 42‑pounders (1.11 mi.), sixty-two 32‑pounders (1.09 mi), fifty-nine 24‑pounders (1.08 mi.), six 18‑pounders (.9m.), and fourteen 12‑pounders (.72 mi.), and 128 carriages for the same; also 4,974 projectiles of all kinds; 3,195 grape-shot, loose; 500 24‑pounder stands cannister shot; 12,712 pounds of powder, and 1,728 cartridge bags.

Fort McRee. One hundred and twenty five sea-coast and garrison cannon, including three 10‑inch (2.4 mi.)and twelve 8‑inch columbiads (2+ mi.); twenty-two 42‑pounders (1.11 mi), twenty-four 32‑pounders (1.09 mi.), and sixty-four 24‑pounder guns (1.08 mi.), with sixty-four carriages; 9,026 projectiles, and 1,258 stands of grape and canister, and 19,928 pounds of powder.

What a great thread. Thank you everyone for all the neat research and dialogue. I was just about to send the link to Bob, then he popped up! Woohoo!

So, it appears that Florida seceded from the Union along the same time frame as South Carolina and Mississippi. The flag flown over Pensacola would have been this one.


The city was under this flag from Jan 1861 until May 1862. Then Union forces took the city by skirmishes more than all out battle (need for the battle flag?) from what I have read in the articles provided by forum members.

My vote is for the appropriate flag from that time frame which would be the one noted above. This would seem to reflect properly the history.

P.S. Does my vote count?

The Fiesta of Five Flags.....I skiied for the Fiesta Ski Club and carried the Confederate flag. The real flag that was associated with our history.

Joanimaroni wrote:

The Fiesta of Five Flags.....I skiied for the Fiesta Ski Club and carried the Confederate flag.  The real flag that was associated with our history.

But, which flag, Joani?

The First flag of the Confederacy (Stars & Bars)
,

or the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia

Now the City of One flag...  LOL How unique..I submitted a few suggestion for a new city flag on another forum

The battle flag.

I see that they're gonna take 'em ALL down... except the US flag.

http://ricksblog.biz/pensacola-bay-center-no-longer-to-fly-confederate-flag/

Since this is county property, probably the best decision. City of Five Flags reflects Pensacola. Splitting hairs? Probably.

It is good to know that people's needs are so fulfilled that they have time to devote to frivolous crap like this.

I'm thinking there are some larger issues the Board should address.

How about DRAINAGE for one?  The county needs to take the old jail property or a parcel nearby that is huge, and dig a deep clay pit that will serve as a buffer for the rainwater.

Do this at 30 or so other places in the county too.  (There is a really nice one off Saufley Field Road that sits dry most of the time, but fills up when heavy rains come.)

These ponds serve to recharge our aquifer (the Sand & Gravel aquifer in Pensacola), and filter out the pollutants and silt that would otherwise flow into our waterways as a slurry of filth.

There is a lot of off road construction along I-10 just east of the Scenic Highway exit that appears to be drainage solutions.

Just putting in bigger ditches and culverts don't solve much, environmentally.  Ponds are the ultimate solution if the ground cannot absorb the runoff.

We are constructing copious amounts of impervious surfaces that shed rainwater off our roofs, driveways, sidewalks, and roads.  That water carries dog poop and fertilizer off people's yards, rubber/ oils/ greases off roadways, and that crap doesn't need to get into our streams, bayous, and bays.

I think it's interesting to go back to colonial development and see the forethought some had in planning. Ogelthorpe in Savannah, GA is pretty interesting.

In what way?

I liked the way they laid out Washington DC so that cannons could fire down the streets.

Coastal communities, like Pensacola tend to be laid out with the first roads aligned with the waterways and bridges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oglethorpe_Plan#mediaviewer/File:Savannah-four-wards.png


Simple plan but he made sure parks were among the city dwellings. The city today has even more than shown on this small map of his plan. He is an interesting read on agriculture, the legal system, etc.

At some time in Pensacola history, Garden Street was created so that the median (much larger then) could be used for vegetable garden cultivation. Most of the residential lots were small and covered by houses or shade from houses, so folks had open spaces for growing stuff.

Pretty neat!

From Pensapedia:

Quote :

The lots south of Garden street had an area of 80 feet front and 170 in depth. North of that street they were 192 feet square, known as arpent or Garden lots, and numbered to correspond with those lying south of Garden street, which were, strictly speaking, town lots. In order to furnish each family with a garden spot, each grantee of a town lot was entitled, upon the condition of improvement, to receive a conveyance of an arpent lot of the same number as his town lot.

I did not come into this discussion until today, because I have been very busy lately and just haven't had time to read. However, even though Pensacola was under Confederate control for a short period of time, the Union forces did win out down here. Even when the Confederate forces were in control of Pensacola, they did not fly the traditional Confederate battle flag that is the source of so much controversy. Since we are being true to history, I see no problem with flying the Confederate flag that actually flew over Pensacola. That's the one that is at the foot of the bay and is now used in our Five Flags celebrations.
I don't think that it is as offensive to as many minority citizens because it's not the one used by the KKK and not the one more traditionally flown during the '50's when Southerners were trying to keep black people out of our schools.

That flag (the battle flag)by the way, was flown at Missionary Ridge in Chattanooga and my great grandfather fought for the South in that battle. I saw it at the Confederate museum in New Orleans and it had something like 50 or so bullet holes in it. If I remember right, there were something like nearly 20 people killed while carrying it that day, and every time one of them died someone new would pick it up. So if I'm all that big on family history or tradition, I'd be arguing for that flag to be flown. But the truth is, I also remember seeing it used as symbol of racism back in the 50's and 60's when I was growing up, so I have mixed feelings about it.

I even went to Escambia High and cheered right along with my fellow "Rebels" (the name we had before it was changed to Gators), and I remember both Dixie and Duane Eddy's "Rebel Rouser" were our biggest fight songs during football games.
But again, a lot of people were flying it for reasons that I couldn't see any reason to take pride in. They were using it to symbolize keeping their fellow Americans from enjoying the same rights that they had.

As far as I'm concerned, the problem has been solved with the historically accurate flag. I don't see any reason to remove it from our Five Flags displays.We were under Confederate control for a minute or two    and to not fly it would be revising history.

Thanks for that info about Garden Street. I never knew why it had that name.

Few things are funnier than when Americans who despise America's government take time out to defend the Confederate flag.- John Fugelsang