Confederate Battle Flag

If Pensacola is the "City of Five Flags", and if the Confederate Battle Flag is one of those flags, why do we need to remove the battle flag from the Civic Center... ahem, the Bay Center?

There is a movement afoot to have this flag removed because, according to a petition:

Quote :

The Pensacola Bay Center is currently flying the Confederate Battle/Rebel Flag. The City of Five Flags is represented by the Confederate National Flag on the historic display on Bayfront Parkway. The County Commission will be voting on Thursday, December 11th at 5:30 pm to decide whether or not the flag will continue to fly on the former Pensacola Civic Center. This is offensive and completely tasteless, and not only should it be removed, it should also come with a sincere apology for putting it up recently.

I don't see what the big deal is... they're both flags that represent the Confederacy.  An apology?  Puleeze!





I don't care which one flies on the dadgum flagpole.

I hate yankees.

I think it is all about the sensitivities of blacks. (As if one flag representing the Confederacy is more offensive to them than another. Much to do about nothing.)

Well I find rainbow flags  and what they represent offensive..so what ?

Really.

Namby-pamby folks these days just whine and complain about everything not Politically Correct. This crap makes me sick.

The city was under confederate occupation. Can't change history.

Well they have already changed history.

Yep.

Well I fail to see how the confederate *battle* flag is so offensive to these people while the confederate *national* flag is perfectly acceptable.

Whut??

Don't these people have any *real* problems? Damn. I can loan them some of mine if they're short.

But then, my own fault for not reading and remembering my Pensacola history, the city was held by the Union so why the confederate flag? This may be their reasoning.

Good article here from Pensacola Independent News dated 2007. Maybe Pensacola does not need the Confederate Flag as we were occupied by the Union???

Good discussion.

http://inweekly.net/article.asp?artID=5023

Joanimaroni wrote:

Well they have already changed history.

If there was an attempt to hide/change the factual history of that time frame then there would be complaints of a cover-up and not recognizing what took place....it's a no win situation and once again anyone can be offended by anything...

SheWrites wrote:

But then, my own fault for not reading and remembering my Pensacola history, the city was held by the Union so why the confederate flag?  This may be their reasoning.  

Good article here from Pensacola Independent News dated 2007.  Maybe Pensacola does not need the Confederate Flag as we were occupied by the Union???  

Good discussion.

http://inweekly.net/article.asp?artID=5023

According to that article:

Quote :

When the Civil War began, Pensacola was seen as an important strategic location by the Union forces. Pensacola was seized by the Union early in the war and became a virtual ghost town, except for the U.S. military and a handful of Confederate guerillas. Much of the population left for Alabama and elsewhere, only to return after hostilities ended.

If the war had begun and the Union seized Pensacola early on, then it makes sense that Pensacola was Confederate at the start of the war.  Obviously, not for long, though.

The battle flag really never represented ALL of the Confederacy during the war.  Wikipedia agrees with what I have read:

Quote :

On November 28, 1861, Confederate soldiers in General Robert E. Lee's newly reorganized Army of Northern Virginia received the new battle flags in ceremonies at Centreville and Manassas, Virginia, and carried them throughout the Civil War.

Other Confederate groups used variations of the Battle Flag, but it never represented the Confederacy as a whole during the war.  

Splitting hairs, though.  The point is that both flags represent the Confederacy now and one flag is about as good as another, I guess.  At some point, I see the PC crowd tearfully petitioning to rid society of the stars and bars too.

Eric wrote:

SheWrites wrote:

But then, my own fault for not reading and remembering my Pensacola history, the city was held by the Union so why the confederate flag?  This may be their reasoning.  

Good article here from Pensacola Independent News dated 2007.  Maybe Pensacola does not need the Confederate Flag as we were occupied by the Union???  

Good discussion.

http://inweekly.net/article.asp?artID=5023

According to that article:

Quote :

When the Civil War began, Pensacola was seen as an important strategic location by the Union forces. Pensacola was seized by the Union early in the war and became a virtual ghost town, except for the U.S. military and a handful of Confederate guerillas. Much of the population left for Alabama and elsewhere, only to return after hostilities ended.

If the war had begun and the Union seized Pensacola early on, then it makes sense that Pensacola was Confederate at the start of the war.  Obviously, not for long, though.

The battle flag really never represented ALL of the Confederacy during the war.  Wikipedia agrees with what I have read:

Quote :

On November 28, 1861, Confederate soldiers in General Robert E. Lee's newly reorganized Army of Northern Virginia received the new battle flags in ceremonies at Centreville and Manassas, Virginia, and carried them throughout the Civil War.

Other Confederate groups used variations of the Battle Flag, but it never represented the Confederacy as a whole during the war.  

Splitting hairs, though.  The point is that both flags represent the Confederacy now and one flag is about as good as another, I guess.  At some point, I see the PC crowd tearfully petitioning to rid society of the stars and bars too.

They tried in Mississippi a couple of years ago but their state legislature have the backbone to say no...there were threats of boycotts which never materialized....

I understand your reasoning, Eric. But there were pockets of people/cities in the South that wanted "Switzerland" status.  It never lasted for long.  Too vulnerable.  And as stated in the article, and know to any military strategist - seize the ports.  

The history of Pensacola seems to be based more on business as you read the article and other stories on her past.  Quite colorful.  Island peoples came to work here early on because of the port and shipping industry.  Slave trade did happen.

I'm looking for a historical account of the fight for the city when the Union overtook Pensacola.

If only Bob were reading right now.  He likes that old Pensacola history stuff a lot.

He'd probably have some links to what you're looking for.

According to http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/lessons/cvl_war/cvl_war1.htm

Quote :

Early 1861: Some speculate that the Civil War could have begun in Florida instead of Fort Sumter, South Carolina. In early January of 1861 when Florida joined the other Confederate states and seceded from the Union, there were Union (U.S. Army) soldiers stationed at Fort Pickens on Santa Rosa Island, right off Pensacola. Confederate soldiers demanded that the Union soldiers surrender now that Florida was a Confederate state. The Union soldiers refused to leave the fort. The Union quickly moved in more troops to reinforce the number of soldiers in the fort of Pensacola. A battle began and a standoff lasted over several months.

The Confederate army landed 1,000 soldiers on the island on October 9th to raid a small Union army camp outside of the fort. More Union soldiers were sent from the fort to reinforce their camp and they were able to drive the Confederates off the island. Battles continued throughout the early part of 1862. Finally, by May, the Confederate troops withdrew from the area and the yearlong standoff was over. The Union occupied Pensacola for the rest of the war.

Here is a Pensapedia account http://www.pensapedia.com/wiki/Civil_War

It's something I research from time to time and will be back into it soon. Does Bob live in Pensacola?

Yes, Bob lives in Pensacola.

I posted a link to the Pensapedia account of the Civil War in my post above.

Confederate Troops at Bayou Grande


Confederate Battery in Pensacola, 1861

My interest is definitely sparked. Enough already. I have other work to finish.

I've heard that the guns at the forts couldn't reach the other forts, but did work great for protecting the entrance to the bay.. I've also heard that both sides would shoot a few times during the day, then meet for drinks and things at the local houses of ill repute during the night... I imagine they met someplace in Gulf Breeze..

I think those houses of ill repute were in North Hill. So the story goes... I'll have to find it.

It's possible, but North Hill is a long ways to go during the civil war, especially for the Union troops at Ft Pickens..

Well true.

The prostitution district occupied a four block area bordered by Government, Palafox, Main, and Barcelona streets with Zarragossa being the “Line."

From Pensapedia: A red-light district existed in downtown Pensacola in the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries where transient sailors and port workers (as well as local Pensacolians) could engage in prostitution and debauchery without fear of retribution.

The prostitution district was well-defined, situated on Zaragoza Street between Palafox and Baylen Streets, and on Baylen from Main to Government Streets. Zaragoza Street in particular became known as "the Line," due to the row of adjacent bordellos. About fifteen such establishments were located within the district, most of them occupying former homes that were abandoned by families due to the nearby port activity.

Just saw this.  I'm flattered,  Eric, but my knowledge of local history is pretty limited to the original Spanish settlement era;  and then from about 1950 on.  There's a BIG gap in there I'm ignorant about. lol

But I started the thread from the beginning,  and then got to SheWrites post where she said...
I'm looking for a historical account of the fight for the city when the Union overtook Pensacola.

I then googled "pensapedia civil war" and got the page you did.  I was gonna provide it but then I saw you beat me to it.  Took away my chance to look good.  lol

I haven't done it,  SheWrites,  but if it was me I'd google the same search string "pensacola civil war" or maybe "pensacola beginning of civil war" and you might get even more info.