Is Honesty Dead?

Honesty has ceased to be seen as a virtue, and with its decline “our society risks a future of moral numbness,” writes William Damon in Defining Ideas, a journal published by the Hoover Institution at Harvard University. Damon is well aware that the little deception is sometimes morally justifiable, but he posits that “a basic intent to be truthful, along with an assumption that people can be generally taken at their word, is required for all sustained civilized dealings.”

And that’s not what he’s seeing out there in our schools, businesses, and institutions. Writes Damon in “The Death of Honesty”:


Although truthfulness is essential for good human relationships and personal integrity, it is often abandoned in pursuit of other life priorities.
http://www.utne.com/environment/is-honesty-dead.aspx

*~Tree~* wrote:

Honesty has ceased to be seen as a virtue, and with its decline “our society risks a future of moral numbness,” writes William Damon in Defining Ideas, a journal published by the Hoover Institution at Harvard University. Damon is well aware that the little deception is sometimes morally justifiable, but he posits that “a basic intent to be truthful, along with an assumption that people can be generally taken at their word, is required for all sustained civilized dealings.”

And that’s not what he’s seeing out there in our schools, businesses, and institutions. Writes Damon in “The Death of Honesty”:


Although truthfulness is essential for good human relationships and personal integrity, it is often abandoned in pursuit of other life priorities.
http://www.utne.com/environment/is-honesty-dead.aspx

Seems that it's easier to be less truthful...less honest..with texting...e-mails...and other social media rather than old fashioned face to face conversations...

I agree MW

There are still a few of us who tell the truth all the time. Just not many

Liars abound in this world.

I wonder about someone that asks a question about honesty and then lauds herself as unusually truthful in a world of liars.....she might be self- deluded IMHO.

Wonder no more my little liar

Had you had eyes to see truth you would have seen truth

Know that I have always known the truth

Quack quack

*~Tree~* wrote:

Wonder no more my little liar

Had you had eyes to see truth you would have seen truth

Know that I have always known the truth

Quack quack

I tend to agree with Teo. It's a strange way to start a thread, by denying that most people are honest anymore. I think most people are more honest than you believe them to be. People will lie to keep themselves out of trouble on occasion, or to protect someone from an insult if they ask you a question like "how do you like this dress?" Anyone who doesn't want to be nasty will lie at times like that.
But generally, I believe most people are honest until they convince me otherwise.

As for the online lying that MW mentioned, I'm not inclined to that myself but I know many people who have been.
It's easy to con people that you aren't looking at straight in the eye, lying in person is much more difficult. As for Teo, I know he is honest because he's said some of the most outrageously provocative things on some of these forums that I've ever read. You don't say things like that unless you actually believe them.
Which is why I disagree with him so very often but why I respect him for his honesty.
He isn't trying to win a popularity contest, that's for dang sure.

It's too hard to lie. I'm not focused enough to remember what I might have said.

Honesty is pretty easy if you're asked to repeat yourself.

Otter wrote:

*~Tree~* wrote:

Wonder no more my little liar

Had you had eyes to see truth you would have seen truth

Know that I have always known the truth

Quack quack

I tend to agree with Teo. It's a strange way to start a thread, by denying that most people are honest anymore. I think most people are more honest than you believe them to be. People will lie to keep themselves out of trouble on occasion, or to protect someone from an insult if they ask you a question like "how do you like this dress?" Anyone who doesn't want to be nasty will lie at times like that.
But generally, I believe most people are honest until they convince me otherwise.

As for the online lying that MW mentioned, I'm not inclined to that myself but I know many people who have been.
It's easy to con people that you aren't looking at straight in the eye, lying in person is much more difficult. As for Teo, I know he is honest because he's said some of the most outrageously provocative things on some of these forums that I've ever read. You don't say things like that unless you actually believe them.
Which is why I disagree with him so very often but why I respect him for his honesty.
He isn't trying to win a popularity contest, that's for dang sure.

You tend to agree with teo a lot. Its good to have a friend who is as misguided and delusional as you are LOL

Back to this topic.

We are infested with liars in this world. Telling the truth no longer has the same value it once had.

Look at our news, all liars because telling the flat out truth is not interesting enough for the lying populace. Everything has to be stretched by little white lies to make it lean this way or that way. People for the most part I think don't even know what truth is anymore. Lying is part of the daily routine. Seriously Ive been in conversations professionally and privately before and have been looked at like I have 3 heads because I think little white lies are wrong.

We lie about who we are, exaggerate, take selfies, I heard that 60% of people photo shop their selfies. Superficial little white liars.

I may be pessimistic about this but really I am coming to the conclusion that we have way to many liars in the world. Perhaps Political correctness has played a role of increasing it.

These are my opinions. As I happen to agree with the premise that people will lie to get what ever they want in the pursuit of whatever it is they want. And that telling the truth can be harmful to you.

stormwatch89 wrote:

It's too hard to lie.  I'm not focused enough to remember what I might have said.

Honesty is pretty easy if you're asked to repeat yourself.

For some it doesn't matter ........if you get caught in a lie just keep spinning and changing what you said.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Yep, everybody lies, some more than others.

By the way, I sometimes agree with Teo, but that doesn't make me a bad person.

Eric. I agree with teo a lot as well. Not on the recent topics though.

Now what is the definition of "is" lol

Also, what's the definition of "sex", as in, "I did not have sex with that woman."

I guess BJs, cigars, etc. are not sex. Our President said so...

I can honestly say I never had sec with a cigar. See I do not lie lmao

There HAS to be a big pile of asses somewhere... y'know ones that got laughed off?

Eric wrote:

There HAS to be a big pile of asses somewhere... y'know ones that got laughed off?

LOL gives new meaning to "smoking hot piece of ass" .

*~Tree~* wrote:

Otter wrote:

*~Tree~* wrote:

Wonder no more my little liar

Had you had eyes to see truth you would have seen truth

Know that I have always known the truth

Quack quack

I tend to agree with Teo. It's a strange way to start a thread, by denying that most people are honest anymore. I think most people are more honest than you believe them to be. People will lie to keep themselves out of trouble on occasion, or to protect someone from an insult if they ask you a question like "how do you like this dress?" Anyone who doesn't want to be nasty will lie at times like that.
But generally, I believe most people are honest until they convince me otherwise.

As for the online lying that MW mentioned, I'm not inclined to that myself but I know many people who have been.
It's easy to con people that you aren't looking at straight in the eye, lying in person is much more difficult. As for Teo, I know he is honest because he's said some of the most outrageously provocative things on some of these forums that I've ever read. You don't say things like that unless you actually believe them.
Which is why I disagree with him so very often but why I respect him for his honesty.
He isn't trying to win a popularity contest, that's for dang sure.

You tend to agree with teo a lot. Its good to have a friend who is as misguided and delusional as you are LOL

Back to this topic.

We are infested with liars in this world. Telling the truth no longer has the same value it once had.

Look at our news, all liars because telling the flat out truth is not interesting enough for the lying populace. Everything has to be stretched by little white lies to make it lean this way or that way. People for the most part I think don't even know what truth is anymore. Lying is part of the daily routine. Seriously Ive been in conversations professionally and privately before and have been looked at like I have 3 heads because I think little white lies are wrong.

We lie about who we are, exaggerate, take selfies, I heard that 60% of people photo shop their selfies. Superficial little white liars.

I may be pessimistic about this but really I am coming to the conclusion that we have way to many liars in the world. Perhaps Political correctness has played a role of increasing it.

These are my opinions. As I happen to agree with the premise that people will lie to get what ever they want in the pursuit of whatever it is they want. And that telling the truth can be harmful to you.  

First of all, I don't listen to the news channels where I assume everyone is lying.  Secondly, since I place an extremely high value on the truth and especially on keeping promises, I think most other people do too. My dad very rarely gave advice but I remember him saying often to never swear to anything because if you broke your promise it would be you who you lost respect for and not the other person. I've been afraid to make promises ever since then, except for my wedding vows. And dad was right , I'm sure of it.   I believe that a lot of other people value truth  as well.  If I'm in a room full of people I don't assume that everyone else is lying except for me.  That's a pretty jaded way to think, IMO. As for being Teo's friend, I have disagreed with Teo entirely over religious issues. Teo is no lover of warfare, and neither am I. That's the place where we can and will always find agreement. On a WHOLE lot of other things we disagree and on some things I just think he's a little kooky (no offense meant Teo, but you can be out there) but he always says what he believes and I admire him for that.  I think if I knew him personally he'd probably most often tell the truth. I think he's a good guy. I think Eric is a good guy too, and also a Christian. I wouldn't expect someone like him to go around lying. I'm just not sure what you've been through in life that makes you think everybody lies so much, but I'm glad I haven't had those experiences. I'd like to go to my grave believing most people are honest most of the time. I guess there are some things about naivete that even I appreciate.   BTW, I've never taken a selfie in my life. I'm not that impressed with myself.

Otter wrote:

*~Tree~* wrote:

Otter wrote:

*~Tree~* wrote:

Wonder no more my little liar

Had you had eyes to see truth you would have seen truth

Know that I have always known the truth

Quack quack

I tend to agree with Teo. It's a strange way to start a thread, by denying that most people are honest anymore. I think most people are more honest than you believe them to be. People will lie to keep themselves out of trouble on occasion, or to protect someone from an insult if they ask you a question like "how do you like this dress?" Anyone who doesn't want to be nasty will lie at times like that.
But generally, I believe most people are honest until they convince me otherwise.

As for the online lying that MW mentioned, I'm not inclined to that myself but I know many people who have been.
It's easy to con people that you aren't looking at straight in the eye, lying in person is much more difficult. As for Teo, I know he is honest because he's said some of the most outrageously provocative things on some of these forums that I've ever read. You don't say things like that unless you actually believe them.
Which is why I disagree with him so very often but why I respect him for his honesty.
He isn't trying to win a popularity contest, that's for dang sure.

You tend to agree with teo a lot. Its good to have a friend who is as misguided and delusional as you are LOL

Back to this topic.

We are infested with liars in this world. Telling the truth no longer has the same value it once had.

Look at our news, all liars because telling the flat out truth is not interesting enough for the lying populace. Everything has to be stretched by little white lies to make it lean this way or that way. People for the most part I think don't even know what truth is anymore. Lying is part of the daily routine. Seriously Ive been in conversations professionally and privately before and have been looked at like I have 3 heads because I think little white lies are wrong.

We lie about who we are, exaggerate, take selfies, I heard that 60% of people photo shop their selfies. Superficial little white liars.

I may be pessimistic about this but really I am coming to the conclusion that we have way to many liars in the world. Perhaps Political correctness has played a role of increasing it.

These are my opinions. As I happen to agree with the premise that people will lie to get what ever they want in the pursuit of whatever it is they want. And that telling the truth can be harmful to you.  

First of all, I don't listen to the news channels where I assume everyone is lying.  Secondly, since I place an extremely high value on the truth and especially on keeping promises, I think most other people do too. My dad very rarely gave advice but I remember him saying often to never swear to anything because if you broke your promise it would be you who you lost respect for and not the other person. I've been afraid to make promises ever since then, except for my wedding vows. And dad was right , I'm sure of it.   I believe that a lot of other people value truth  as well.  If I'm in a room full of people I don't assume that everyone else is lying except for me.  That's a pretty jaded way to think, IMO. As for being Teo's friend, I have disagreed with Teo entirely over religious issues. Teo is no lover of warfare, and neither am I. That's the place where we can and will always find agreement. On a WHOLE lot of other things we disagree and on some things I just think he's a little kooky (no offense meant Teo, but you can be out there) but he always says what he believes and I admire him for that.  I think if I knew him personally he'd probably most often tell the truth. I think he's a good guy. I think Eric is a good guy too, and also a Christian. I wouldn't expect someone like him to go around lying. I'm just not sure what you've been through in life that makes you think everybody lies so much, but I'm glad I haven't had those experiences. I'd like to go to my grave believing most people are honest most of the time. I guess there are some things about naivete that even I appreciate.   BTW, I've never taken a selfie in my life. I'm not that impressed with myself.

Why are you so defensive? This thread is NOT directed at anyone on this forum. It is simply a general topic that I posted in order to encourage dialog.

Take a chill cigar

*~Tree~* wrote:

Otter wrote:

*~Tree~* wrote:

Otter wrote:

*~Tree~* wrote:

Wonder no more my little liar

Had you had eyes to see truth you would have seen truth

Know that I have always known the truth

Quack quack

I tend to agree with Teo. It's a strange way to start a thread, by denying that most people are honest anymore. I think most people are more honest than you believe them to be. People will lie to keep themselves out of trouble on occasion, or to protect someone from an insult if they ask you a question like "how do you like this dress?" Anyone who doesn't want to be nasty will lie at times like that.
But generally, I believe most people are honest until they convince me otherwise.

As for the online lying that MW mentioned, I'm not inclined to that myself but I know many people who have been.
It's easy to con people that you aren't looking at straight in the eye, lying in person is much more difficult. As for Teo, I know he is honest because he's said some of the most outrageously provocative things on some of these forums that I've ever read. You don't say things like that unless you actually believe them.
Which is why I disagree with him so very often but why I respect him for his honesty.
He isn't trying to win a popularity contest, that's for dang sure.

You tend to agree with teo a lot. Its good to have a friend who is as misguided and delusional as you are LOL

Back to this topic.

We are infested with liars in this world. Telling the truth no longer has the same value it once had.

Look at our news, all liars because telling the flat out truth is not interesting enough for the lying populace. Everything has to be stretched by little white lies to make it lean this way or that way. People for the most part I think don't even know what truth is anymore. Lying is part of the daily routine. Seriously Ive been in conversations professionally and privately before and have been looked at like I have 3 heads because I think little white lies are wrong.

We lie about who we are, exaggerate, take selfies, I heard that 60% of people photo shop their selfies. Superficial little white liars.

I may be pessimistic about this but really I am coming to the conclusion that we have way to many liars in the world. Perhaps Political correctness has played a role of increasing it.

These are my opinions. As I happen to agree with the premise that people will lie to get what ever they want in the pursuit of whatever it is they want. And that telling the truth can be harmful to you.  

First of all, I don't listen to the news channels where I assume everyone is lying.  Secondly, since I place an extremely high value on the truth and especially on keeping promises, I think most other people do too. My dad very rarely gave advice but I remember him saying often to never swear to anything because if you broke your promise it would be you who you lost respect for and not the other person. I've been afraid to make promises ever since then, except for my wedding vows. And dad was right , I'm sure of it.   I believe that a lot of other people value truth  as well.  If I'm in a room full of people I don't assume that everyone else is lying except for me.  That's a pretty jaded way to think, IMO. As for being Teo's friend, I have disagreed with Teo entirely over religious issues. Teo is no lover of warfare, and neither am I. That's the place where we can and will always find agreement. On a WHOLE lot of other things we disagree and on some things I just think he's a little kooky (no offense meant Teo, but you can be out there) but he always says what he believes and I admire him for that.  I think if I knew him personally he'd probably most often tell the truth. I think he's a good guy. I think Eric is a good guy too, and also a Christian. I wouldn't expect someone like him to go around lying. I'm just not sure what you've been through in life that makes you think everybody lies so much, but I'm glad I haven't had those experiences. I'd like to go to my grave believing most people are honest most of the time. I guess there are some things about naivete that even I appreciate.   BTW, I've never taken a selfie in my life. I'm not that impressed with myself.

Why are you so defensive? This thread is NOT directed at anyone on this forum. It is simply a general topic that I posted in order to encourage dialog.

Take a chill cigar

I'm not being defensive. You encouraged dialogue. I explained that I assume that others are usually as honest as I am, at the very least.
That IS dialogue. It is on topic. And I don't consider it defensive.
You also made a snarky remark about me and Teo being friends.

I don't have "friends" online. Some people I like and some I don't, but I do have the wisdom to know the difference in a true "friend" that you actually know and have spent time with and a forum buddy or a forum enemy. I don't mean to be snarky about it, but you don't know somebody unless you actually KNOW them personally.

Otter wrote:

*~Tree~* wrote:

Otter wrote:

*~Tree~* wrote:

Otter wrote:

*~Tree~* wrote:

Wonder no more my little liar

Had you had eyes to see truth you would have seen truth

Know that I have always known the truth

Quack quack

I tend to agree with Teo. It's a strange way to start a thread, by denying that most people are honest anymore. I think most people are more honest than you believe them to be. People will lie to keep themselves out of trouble on occasion, or to protect someone from an insult if they ask you a question like "how do you like this dress?" Anyone who doesn't want to be nasty will lie at times like that.
But generally, I believe most people are honest until they convince me otherwise.

As for the online lying that MW mentioned, I'm not inclined to that myself but I know many people who have been.
It's easy to con people that you aren't looking at straight in the eye, lying in person is much more difficult. As for Teo, I know he is honest because he's said some of the most outrageously provocative things on some of these forums that I've ever read. You don't say things like that unless you actually believe them.
Which is why I disagree with him so very often but why I respect him for his honesty.
He isn't trying to win a popularity contest, that's for dang sure.

You tend to agree with teo a lot. Its good to have a friend who is as misguided and delusional as you are LOL

Back to this topic.

We are infested with liars in this world. Telling the truth no longer has the same value it once had.

Look at our news, all liars because telling the flat out truth is not interesting enough for the lying populace. Everything has to be stretched by little white lies to make it lean this way or that way. People for the most part I think don't even know what truth is anymore. Lying is part of the daily routine. Seriously Ive been in conversations professionally and privately before and have been looked at like I have 3 heads because I think little white lies are wrong.

We lie about who we are, exaggerate, take selfies, I heard that 60% of people photo shop their selfies. Superficial little white liars.

I may be pessimistic about this but really I am coming to the conclusion that we have way to many liars in the world. Perhaps Political correctness has played a role of increasing it.

These are my opinions. As I happen to agree with the premise that people will lie to get what ever they want in the pursuit of whatever it is they want. And that telling the truth can be harmful to you.  

First of all, I don't listen to the news channels where I assume everyone is lying.  Secondly, since I place an extremely high value on the truth and especially on keeping promises, I think most other people do too. My dad very rarely gave advice but I remember him saying often to never swear to anything because if you broke your promise it would be you who you lost respect for and not the other person. I've been afraid to make promises ever since then, except for my wedding vows. And dad was right , I'm sure of it.   I believe that a lot of other people value truth  as well.  If I'm in a room full of people I don't assume that everyone else is lying except for me.  That's a pretty jaded way to think, IMO. As for being Teo's friend, I have disagreed with Teo entirely over religious issues. Teo is no lover of warfare, and neither am I. That's the place where we can and will always find agreement. On a WHOLE lot of other things we disagree and on some things I just think he's a little kooky (no offense meant Teo, but you can be out there) but he always says what he believes and I admire him for that.  I think if I knew him personally he'd probably most often tell the truth. I think he's a good guy. I think Eric is a good guy too, and also a Christian. I wouldn't expect someone like him to go around lying. I'm just not sure what you've been through in life that makes you think everybody lies so much, but I'm glad I haven't had those experiences. I'd like to go to my grave believing most people are honest most of the time. I guess there are some things about naivete that even I appreciate.   BTW, I've never taken a selfie in my life. I'm not that impressed with myself.

Why are you so defensive? This thread is NOT directed at anyone on this forum. It is simply a general topic that I posted in order to encourage dialog.

Take a chill cigar

I'm not being defensive. You encouraged dialogue. I explained that I assume that others are usually as honest as I am, at the very least.
That IS dialogue. It is on topic. And I don't consider it defensive.
You also made a snarky remark about me and Teo being friends.

I don't have "friends" online. Some people I like and some I don't, but I do have the wisdom to know the difference in a true "friend" that you actually know and have spent time with and a forum buddy or a forum enemy.  I don't mean to be snarky about it, but you don't know somebody unless you actually KNOW them personally.

I absolutely agree that you don't know someone unless you know them personally.

I disagree that most people are honest in todays world though. I think its very naive to think that. I wish I could be a little bit more fuzzy in my thinking on that but I cant.

Ill just segregate one point I made earlier about political correctness. I believe PC makes liars out of all of us.   

Political correctness is nothing but an attempt to not be rude. It's simply not calling people names that offend them.

I don't see a problem with that. I don't see a problem with "little white lies" about what someone's hair looks like or telling them they're not too fat either.
I don't think avoiding rudeness is going to send anybody to hell.

And you and I totally disagree about most people lying to achieve whatever they want in life. Some people will but an awful lot of people will not. I think more won't than will, but Maybe I'm being naive. If I am I'm happier that way.

Political correctness has evolved. It's no longer just about not being rude. Now you just have to flat out lie.

And if it makes you happier to think people don't lie that much more power to you

I used to be naive too. I still am at heart. I have to work at not being naive hOnestly I'm not very good at not being naive which is why over time I have discovered so many liars lol

I also discovered a bunch of liars while watching commercials lol I could go on and on about those liars

I have tried to tell the truth, even if it gets me in trouble.

Of course, you don't have to volunteer the incriminating information if you're not asked, lol.

And I thought the comment about being like Teo wasn't said in a friendly manner.

Eric wrote:

I have tried to tell the truth, even if it gets me in trouble.

Of course, you don't have to volunteer the incriminating information if you're not asked, lol.

And I thought the comment about being like Teo wasn't said in a friendly manner.  

Telling the truth has gotten me into a lot of trouble.

And I apologize if I offended otter and teo. The jew thing has gotten a little out of hand and it flowed over into this thread. Which was actually a topic I found while looking at something else and in hindsight it could appear that it was directed towards that argument.

Sorry Teo and Otter.   

Yeah, Teo can have "unusual" ways of looking at things. (I said that in my most diplomatic manner, lol.)

But his views are thought-provoking and I like seeing different perspectives on topics. How can we make well-rounded decisions without considering all the options?

It would be pretty damn boring if we all agreed with each other all the time.

Eric, what you just said is exactly why I live teo. He probaly hates me now because the Israel thing. We have always disagreed on that fervently

Let's not forget history here. I have been a strong defender of teo's ideas for years

He almost has me convinced we didn't land on the moon lol

And you're right, we need a little bit of opposing views


Maybe I'm not as diplomatic or even intelligent enough like otter says to debate outrageous ideas, but at least I'm conversating and all I can do is apologize if I poked to hard. And that's all I can do.

Now excuse me for a bit I have a bark wound to tend to lol