"A Swat team blew a hole in my 2 year old son"

What a headline. Here's the story:

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/

I've been watching for years as our police forces became more like paramilitary organizations. If these guys don't think they're macho enough in their blue uniforms they need to join the marines to get their balls up. This is outrageous behavior from people who still call themselves "peace officers". Everyone on that swat team should be fired and the ridiculous War on Drugs needs to be ended. There were no drugs in the house and now the family is sitting there waiting for their son to come out of a coma, and if he does that he won't be permanently blind or deaf.

I have a close friend whose son was murdered by a swat team out in Cantonment several years ago and no legal recourse has been made yet- not that you can ever make up for the loss of an only child.

It's happening all over America and it needs to stop.

Searching for a suspected meth dealer. Ridiculous - apparently the guy had sold meth to an undercover cop, he should have been arrested on the spot and this never would have happened.

nochain wrote:

Searching for a suspected meth dealer. Ridiculous - apparently the guy had sold meth to an undercover cop, he should have been arrested on the spot and this never would have happened.

Nothing will or can ever be done to make this situation any better...The 'meth dealer' is responsible for a lot or most of this and most time depending on the regulations of the district there has to be a pattern established of sales by the dealer in order to satisfy the requirements for a judge to issue/sign a warrant...Law enforcement usually will attempt to turn the low level dealer for the opportunity to make an arrest up the food chain.. ..These dealers/cookers are not above using living areas occupied by children and others as a cover for their activities...Have seen the ingredients needed stored in a child's room with weapons stored under their beds....Sadly...surprised this type of incident hasn't happened more...

Law enforcement is doing the jobs they are hired to do.  Some are overly aggressive, as are employees in any field of work.  The difference is that they are given deadly weapons to accomplish their tasks.  The "Blue Code of Silence" and the legal system seems to allow LEOs carte blanche and this is not helping the public's perception of LEOs.

The war on drugs is a costly failure.  Costly in human terms where innocent bystanders like Bou Bou are injured, consumers of minute quantities of drugs are incarcerated for years, and we have wasted a trillion dollars in the US alone since 1971.  

In 2011, Mexico had 27,199 murders, many of which were attributed to the highly profitable drug trade.  One hit man confessed to carrying out 800 murders himself.

End the war on drugs and treat users like addicts.  This will serve to remove the customers from the supply chain of the cartels, and in some areas, provide tax revenue to our governments.  

Regulate marijuana like we do alcohol.  Treating addicts in a controlled environment will also reduce HIV and hepatitis transmission.  This is the only solution that I see.  It ain't perfect and there will be problems.

With decriminalization of drugs, our SWAT teams will be out of enforcement of drug laws.  They are highly trained and do a great job following their protocols, but sometimes collateral damage is the result.

Eric wrote:

Law enforcement is doing the jobs they are hired to do.  Some are overly aggressive, as are employees in any field of work.  The difference is that they are given deadly weapons to accomplish their tasks.  The "Blue Code of Silence" and the legal system seems to allow LEOs carte blanche and this is not helping the public's perception of LEOs.

The war on drugs is a costly failure.  Costly in human terms where innocent bystanders like Bou Bou are injured, consumers of minute quantities of drugs are incarcerated for years, and we have wasted a trillion dollars in the US alone since 1971.  

In 2011, Mexico had 27,199 murders, many of which were attributed to the highly profitable drug trade.  One hit man confessed to carrying out 800 murders himself.

End the war on drugs and treat users like addicts.  This will serve to remove the customers from the supply chain of the cartels, and in some areas, provide tax revenue to our governments.  

Regulate marijuana like we do alcohol.  Treating addicts in a controlled environment will also reduce HIV and hepatitis transmission.  This is the only solution that I see.  It ain't perfect and there will be problems.

With decriminalization of drugs, our SWAT teams will be out of enforcement of drug laws.  They are highly trained and do a great job following their protocols, but sometimes collateral damage is the result.

    Read news accounts of this online in the Atlanta media....The SWAT Team inquestion is "devastated" about this incident and there is NO indication of anyone not taking responsibility for the final outcome that took place...Now...once again the burden of proof will be...Did the team have a lawful reason to be at that location, at that time, and did they perform their duties in a lawful manner under state statutes and in accordance with their policies..guidelines and training...There is an investigation ongoing by the District Attorney and in this case even if it is proven they acted within the laws there is no ruling that will have any comfort towards the family of the child.  The officers that participated will certainly not gain comfort either...

       Once again...and very consistantly by mentioning 'the blue code of silence' and the legal system allowing LEO's 'carte blanche' doesn't help in any way either...Does it make anyone feel better that the officers have received death threats?..

        Just a reminder.....not too long ago in Santa Rosa County there was a raid on a suspected meth house and the pieces of _____ that were cooking and selling that crap had children in the house...the same type of swat team and/or officers that are easily condemned when it goes to crap[ like in this instance] carried out the three children wrapped in blankets and sent them to the hospital to be ecvaluated for ingestion of toxic fumes...The pieces of _____ (including the wife) were appprehended and prosecuted on a multitude of charges including child abuse/neglect...This is how law enforcement want the outcome...no officer goes to work wanting to injure or kill a child or innocent and to suggest that this may have been because of being 'overly aggressive' is ignorance...if anyone knows this to be the case and has proof then they need to contact the DA in Atlanta....

Otter wrote:

What a headline. Here's the story:

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/

I've been watching for years as our police forces became more like paramilitary organizations. If these guys don't think they're macho enough in their blue uniforms they need to join the marines to get their balls up. This is outrageous  behavior from people who still call themselves "peace officers". Everyone on that swat team should be fired and the ridiculous War on Drugs needs to be ended. There were no drugs in the house and now the family is sitting there waiting for their son to come out of a coma, and if he does that he won't be permanently blind or deaf.

I have a close friend whose son was murdered by a swat team out in Cantonment several years ago and no legal recourse has been made yet- not that you can ever make up for the loss of an only child.

It's happening all over America and it needs to stop.

Since you opened the door and said it was "murder".....so the SWAT TEAM just arrived at a location and killed an innocent individual?.... Surely there has to be MORE to this incident then to simply say "murdered by a swat team in Cantonment"..... Of course these types of situations are HORRIBLE for the surviving relatives and sadly they beat themselves and blame themselves...There has to be more circumstances to this incident....

mediawatcher wrote:

Eric wrote:

Law enforcement is doing the jobs they are hired to do.  Some are overly aggressive, as are employees in any field of work.  The difference is that they are given deadly weapons to accomplish their tasks.  The "Blue Code of Silence" and the legal system seems to allow LEOs carte blanche and this is not helping the public's perception of LEOs.

The war on drugs is a costly failure.  Costly in human terms where innocent bystanders like Bou Bou are injured, consumers of minute quantities of drugs are incarcerated for years, and we have wasted a trillion dollars in the US alone since 1971.  

In 2011, Mexico had 27,199 murders, many of which were attributed to the highly profitable drug trade.  One hit man confessed to carrying out 800 murders himself.

End the war on drugs and treat users like addicts.  This will serve to remove the customers from the supply chain of the cartels, and in some areas, provide tax revenue to our governments.  

Regulate marijuana like we do alcohol.  Treating addicts in a controlled environment will also reduce HIV and hepatitis transmission.  This is the only solution that I see.  It ain't perfect and there will be problems.

With decriminalization of drugs, our SWAT teams will be out of enforcement of drug laws.  They are highly trained and do a great job following their protocols, but sometimes collateral damage is the result.

    Read news accounts of this online in the Atlanta media....The SWAT Team inquestion is "devastated" about this incident and there is NO indication of anyone not taking responsibility for the final outcome that took place...Now...once again the burden of proof will be...Did the team have a lawful reason to be at that location, at that time, and did they perform their duties in a lawful manner under state statutes and in accordance with their policies..guidelines and training...There is an investigation ongoing by the District Attorney and in this case even if it is proven they acted within the laws there is no ruling that will have any comfort towards the family of the child.  The officers that participated will certainly not gain comfort either...

       Once again...and very consistantly by mentioning 'the blue code of silence' and the legal system allowing LEO's 'carte blanche' doesn't help in any way either...Does it make anyone feel better that the officers have received death threats?..

        Just a reminder.....not too long ago in Santa Rosa County there was a raid on a suspected meth house and the pieces of _____ that were cooking and selling that crap had children in the house...the same type of swat team and/or officers that are easily condemned when it goes to crap[ like in this instance] carried out the three children wrapped in blankets and sent them to the hospital to be ecvaluated for ingestion of toxic fumes...The pieces of _____ (including the wife) were appprehended and prosecuted on a multitude of charges including child abuse/neglect...This is how law enforcement want the outcome...no officer goes to work wanting to injure or kill a child or innocent and to suggest that this may have been because of being 'overly aggressive' is ignorance...if anyone knows this to be the case and has proof then they need to contact the DA in Atlanta....

MW, I didn't disparage the team that led this particular raid.  Because you quoted my text and replied as you did, I inferred that I somehow said that they were cold and heartless.  Not true.  I only brought up the Blue Code of Silence and carte blanche because there is a perception that LEOs can get away with whatever they do, and the hype surrounding this story will only raise those concerns once again.  By the way, your post said I consistently mention the blue code of silence.  To my knowledge I have NEVER mentioned the Blue Code of Silence before.

That was a small part of my post and, once again, it becomes the topic of an overblown response.

Eric wrote:

mediawatcher wrote:

Eric wrote:

Law enforcement is doing the jobs they are hired to do.  Some are overly aggressive, as are employees in any field of work.  The difference is that they are given deadly weapons to accomplish their tasks.  The "Blue Code of Silence" and the legal system seems to allow LEOs carte blanche and this is not helping the public's perception of LEOs.

The war on drugs is a costly failure.  Costly in human terms where innocent bystanders like Bou Bou are injured, consumers of minute quantities of drugs are incarcerated for years, and we have wasted a trillion dollars in the US alone since 1971.  

In 2011, Mexico had 27,199 murders, many of which were attributed to the highly profitable drug trade.  One hit man confessed to carrying out 800 murders himself.

End the war on drugs and treat users like addicts.  This will serve to remove the customers from the supply chain of the cartels, and in some areas, provide tax revenue to our governments.  

Regulate marijuana like we do alcohol.  Treating addicts in a controlled environment will also reduce HIV and hepatitis transmission.  This is the only solution that I see.  It ain't perfect and there will be problems.

With decriminalization of drugs, our SWAT teams will be out of enforcement of drug laws.  They are highly trained and do a great job following their protocols, but sometimes collateral damage is the result.

    Read news accounts of this online in the Atlanta media....The SWAT Team inquestion is "devastated" about this incident and there is NO indication of anyone not taking responsibility for the final outcome that took place...Now...once again the burden of proof will be...Did the team have a lawful reason to be at that location, at that time, and did they perform their duties in a lawful manner under state statutes and in accordance with their policies..guidelines and training...There is an investigation ongoing by the District Attorney and in this case even if it is proven they acted within the laws there is no ruling that will have any comfort towards the family of the child.  The officers that participated will certainly not gain comfort either...

       Once again...and very consistantly by mentioning 'the blue code of silence' and the legal system allowing LEO's 'carte blanche' doesn't help in any way either...Does it make anyone feel better that the officers have received death threats?..

        Just a reminder.....not too long ago in Santa Rosa County there was a raid on a suspected meth house and the pieces of _____ that were cooking and selling that crap had children in the house...the same type of swat team and/or officers that are easily condemned when it goes to crap[ like in this instance] carried out the three children wrapped in blankets and sent them to the hospital to be ecvaluated for ingestion of toxic fumes...The pieces of _____ (including the wife) were appprehended and prosecuted on a multitude of charges including child abuse/neglect...This is how law enforcement want the outcome...no officer goes to work wanting to injure or kill a child or innocent and to suggest that this may have been because of being 'overly aggressive' is ignorance...if anyone knows this to be the case and has proof then they need to contact the DA in Atlanta....

MW, I didn't disparage the team that led this particular raid.  Because you quoted my text and replied as you did, I inferred that I somehow said that they were cold and heartless.  Not true.  I only brought up the Blue Code of Silence and carte blanche because there is a perception that LEOs can get away with whatever they do, and the hype surrounding this story will only raise those concerns once again.

That was a small part of my post and, once again, it becomes the topic of an overblown response.

 
  Not an 'overblown response'....simply a response to an expected point of view....When you've mentioned many times that cops cover for each other...that's the blue code of silence... It's not that big of a deal because had you posted without using those terms then that would have been shocking...

And what point of view is that.

Did I accuse this SWAT team of anything? Am I to assume that I should not post to any topic posted that has to do with law enforcement so that I don't incur your wrath against my supposed injustice imposed upon LEOs?

Eric wrote:

And what point of view is that.  

Did I accuse this SWAT team of anything?  Am I to assume that I should not post to any topic posted that has to do with law enforcement so that I don't incur your wrath against my supposed injustice imposed upon LEOs?

Wrath???.... Really??? Now that's hilarious...

It is no secret that I believe that LEOs are fallible. We all are. With the plethora of dash cams, cell phones that record video, it is inevitable that some of the ones that cross the "line" are caught.

Unfortunately, the day in and day out good guys don't get the media coverage because it isn't newsworthy.

From the constant barrage we get from the media with LEOs exceeding their authority, some probably think that they all are like that. Any fair-minded person would realize that the majority of LEOs are good people that don't exceed their authority.

This thread was posted by Otter probably because of the perception that the SWAT team may have been over zealous.

I offered up a detailed solution to the reason for this raid... the War on Drugs... but that was ignored in favor of a diatribe about a small portion of my post that dealt with why this thread was posted in the first place... a media-fueled public perception that this might be a renegade action by a SWAT team out of control.

I don't know the details of this particular SWAT action, but I suspect that they followed protocol and the child was injured accidentally.

Eric wrote:

It is no secret that I believe that LEOs are fallible.  We all are.  With the plethora of dash cams, cell phones that record video, it is inevitable that some of the ones that cross the "line" are caught.  

Unfortunately, the day in and day out good guys don't get the media coverage because it isn't newsworthy.

From the constant barrage we get from the media with LEOs exceeding their authority, some probably think that they all are like that.  Any fair-minded person would realize that the majority of LEOs are good people that don't exceed their authority.

This thread was posted by Otter probably because of the perception that the SWAT team may have been over zealous.  

I offered up a detailed solution to the reason for this raid... the War on Drugs... but that was ignored in favor of a diatribe about a small portion of my post that dealt with why this thread was posted in the first place... a media-fueled public perception that this might be a renegade action by a SWAT team out of control.

I don't know the details of this particular SWAT action, but I suspect that they followed protocol and the child was injured accidentally.  

Most SWAT actions are recorded and are used for future training and for providing evidence that statutes, guidelines and policies were followed....Actually as I posted....read many accounts from the Atlanta media outlets on-line and there has been no speculation/allegations/conspiracies offered only calling this what it is...a tragedy...The media only mentioned that the DA will conduct an investigation into the raid which is standard operating procedure in these matters...

The headline of this incident was from the mother of the victim [child] and certainly no one should be critical of what her raw feelings are on this subject...It's easy to speculate about situations like this when we are removed and or not related to the individuals involved...but reading quotes from the mother and seeing the photo of the child only makes the tragedy a little more personal and horrible...

Just for the record...inquired to 'otter' about his post and he has declined to respond after alleging that the swat team "murdered" a close friends' child...Did not confuse the two posts...

The good news is that the child is out of a coma and is recovering.

Eric wrote:

The good news is that the child is out of a coma and is recovering.

 
     That's the most important news...

mediawatcher wrote:

Otter wrote:

What a headline. Here's the story:

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/

I've been watching for years as our police forces became more like paramilitary organizations. If these guys don't think they're macho enough in their blue uniforms they need to join the marines to get their balls up. This is outrageous  behavior from people who still call themselves "peace officers". Everyone on that swat team should be fired and the ridiculous War on Drugs needs to be ended. There were no drugs in the house and now the family is sitting there waiting for their son to come out of a coma, and if he does that he won't be permanently blind or deaf.

I have a close friend whose son was murdered by a swat team out in Cantonment several years ago and no legal recourse has been made yet- not that you can ever make up for the loss of an only child.

It's happening all over America and it needs to stop.

     Since you opened the door and said it was "murder".....so the SWAT TEAM just arrived at a location and killed an innocent individual?.... Surely there has to be MORE to this incident then to simply say "murdered by a swat team in Cantonment"..... Of course these types of situations are HORRIBLE for the surviving relatives and sadly they beat themselves and blame themselves...There has to be more circumstances to this incident....

In the case that happened in Cantonment a young man's grandfather called the police because he said his grandson was acting strangely and he thought the boy might need some mental help. He did not ask for a swat team, nor did he say he was in any danger.  When the swat team arrived, they called the grandfather out  from the house, leaving only the teen in the house alone. No one in the house was any longer in danger except for the teen. The boy's mother arrived in a car and begged the swat team to let her talk to her son, either by going in or through a bull horn from outside the house. My understanding is that the boy's girlfriend had dropped him and he was just depressed.  The cops grabbed the woman and dragged her to a police car and drove a block away. The grandfather later related that the boy was frightened and  was holding his granddad's  shotgun down by his side outside on the porch, never once raised it to fire at the police, and they gunned him down.

Of course, the police reported differently. The mother is still devastated by this to this day, her parents had to move out of the house, they couldn't take even living in Pensacola anymore and moved to Oklahoma. Since I know some of the people involved, I choose to believe their story. You can choose whatever you want to, but the boy's mother considered it murder and so do I.

There were way too many other possibilities of how it could have been handled.
This case was one of the reasons I wouldn't ever have voted for Jim Lowman again, but I'm not too sure our present sheriff is much better at choosing deputies with good judgment. You can't just excuse people willy nilly because they are wearing blue uniforms.
If they wear those uniforms they should have BETTER judgment than the average civilian because they have a lot more power than we do.


By the way, Otter doesn't refuse to answer you. Otter just does not come onto the forum every day like you seem to do. This is something I do when I'm bored, nothing more.

Otter wrote:

mediawatcher wrote:

Otter wrote:

What a headline. Here's the story:

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/

I've been watching for years as our police forces became more like paramilitary organizations. If these guys don't think they're macho enough in their blue uniforms they need to join the marines to get their balls up. This is outrageous  behavior from people who still call themselves "peace officers". Everyone on that swat team should be fired and the ridiculous War on Drugs needs to be ended. There were no drugs in the house and now the family is sitting there waiting for their son to come out of a coma, and if he does that he won't be permanently blind or deaf.

I have a close friend whose son was murdered by a swat team out in Cantonment several years ago and no legal recourse has been made yet- not that you can ever make up for the loss of an only child.

It's happening all over America and it needs to stop.

     Since you opened the door and said it was "murder".....so the SWAT TEAM just arrived at a location and killed an innocent individual?.... Surely there has to be MORE to this incident then to simply say "murdered by a swat team in Cantonment"..... Of course these types of situations are HORRIBLE for the surviving relatives and sadly they beat themselves and blame themselves...There has to be more circumstances to this incident....

In the case that happened in Cantonment a young man's grandfather called the police because he said his grandson was acting strangely and he thought the boy might need some mental help. He did not ask for a swat team, nor did he say he was in any danger.  When the swat team arrived, they called the grandfather out  from the house, leaving only the teen in the house alone. No one in the house was any longer in danger except for the teen. The boy's mother arrived in a car and begged the swat team to let her talk to her son, either by going in or through a bull horn from outside the house. My understanding is that the boy's girlfriend had dropped him and he was just depressed.  The cops grabbed the woman and dragged her to a police car and drove a block away. The grandfather later related that the boy was frightened and  was holding his granddad's  shotgun down by his side outside on the porch, never once raised it to fire at the police, and they gunned him down.

Of course, the police reported differently. The mother is still devastated by this to this day, her parents had to move out of the house, they couldn't take even living in Pensacola anymore and moved to Oklahoma. Since I know some of the people involved, I choose to believe their story. You can choose whatever you want to, but the boy's mother considered it murder and so do I.

There were way too many other possibilities of how it could have been handled.
This case was one of the reasons I wouldn't ever have voted for Jim Lowman again, but I'm not too sure our present sheriff is much better at choosing deputies with good judgment. You can't just excuse people willy nilly because they are wearing blue uniforms.
If they wear those uniforms they should have BETTER judgment than the average civilian because they have a lot more power than we do.


By the way, Otter doesn't refuse to answer you. Otter just does not come onto the forum every day like you seem to do. This is something I do when I'm bored, nothing more.

Agree that in these situations it has to be devastating for the surviving family...

When someone comes out onto a porch ...armed....refuses to comply with orders and raises the weapon in the direction of officers then the expected is going to happen....There are situations when a depressed/troubled individual cannot do what they are thinking and instead force the hand of others to do it...