Bakery That Refused to Make Gay Wedding Cake Shuts Doors Closure won't stop state investigation...

http://reason.com/blog/2013/09/03/bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding

“This fight is not over. We will continue to stand strong. Your Religious Freedom is becoming not Free anymore. This is ridiculous that we can not practice our faith. The LORD is good and we will continue to serve Him with all our heart. ♥”


THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED TO MUSLIMS OR JEWS !

I don't agree with that, but that's the way it is. Where do you draw the line on discrimination? White's-only water fountains? Stone the adulterers? Chop off hands of thieves?

No one said you had to deny your religion, but do we Christians have the right to force our values on more than 25% of our population that are not believers? I don't think so.

You ABSOLUTELY have the right to practice your religion, but you do not have the right to force your beliefs upon others.

Eric wrote:

I don't agree with that, but that's the way it is.  Where do you draw the line on discrimination?  White's-only water fountains?  Stone the adulterers?  Chop off hands of thieves?

No one said you had to deny your religion, but do we Christians have the right to force our values on more than 25% of our population that are not believers?  I don't think so.

You ABSOLUTELY have the right to practice your religion, but you do not have the right to force your beliefs upon others.

What's the difference between this and the Chik-fil-a controversy not too long ago?...The owner didn't back down a bit from his beliefs based in religion and haven't read anywhere that he or any his managers have been arrested or that they've been forced to change their policies... The gay boycotts and protests haven't worked and doesn't appear that the business has been hurt...He's not forcing his religious beliefs on anyone or attempting to convert them and it doesn't appear this bakery owner is either...If his refusal hursts his sales well that's a price for his position....

If anyone goes into a business and there are aspects of that business that you don't agree with or are against your beliefs what do you do?...Don't go back to the place...most don't whine they just accept they have a right to their freedoms and you have the same freedom not to support the place...The only ones that benefit from this nonesense are the lawyers...



What would happen if someone walked into a business that happens to be owned by gays and demanded that they keep their beliefs out of their business?....Wonder if the courts would react in the same manner...

The difference? I think that owner Cathy came out against gays, but I don't think he said they would be refused service. He has given lots of money to anti-gay groups, but has softened his stance somewhat.

The baker simply refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

Eric wrote:

I don't agree with that, but that's the way it is.  Where do you draw the line on discrimination?  White's-only water fountains?  Stone the adulterers?  Chop off hands of thieves?

No one said you had to deny your religion, but do we Christians have the right to force our values on more than 25% of our population that are not believers?  I don't think so.

You ABSOLUTELY have the right to practice your religion, but you do not have the right to force your beliefs upon others.

Then I should be able to order pork at any Jewish or Muslim restaurant or grocery store.

Otherwise I have the right to sue for discrimination because it's part of my culture.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOuUYcenW0

Should a black or jewish owned laundry be forced to clean kkk sheets and hoods?

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Then I should be able to order pork at any Jewish or Muslim restaurant or grocery store.

Otherwise I have the right to sue for discrimination because it's part of my culture?

You can order anything you want, but if it ain't in the store or on the menu, you ain't gettin' it.

Just like you won't get a hamburger at Best Buy.

Eric wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Then I should be able to order pork at any Jewish or Muslim restaurant or grocery store.

Otherwise I have the right to sue for discrimination because it's part of my culture?

You can order anything you want, but if it ain't in the store or on the menu, you ain't gettin' it.

Just like you won't get a hamburger at Best Buy.

At the risk of being ridiculous....then if that baker doesn't provide that certain type of cake decoration then why is or has this become such an issue?...If you cant buy a hamburger at Best Buy you go where they sell hamburgers...if you want a specific type of decoration for a cake and this place doesn't provide that... find a place that will accommodate your needs....really not that difficult....

Political Correctness continues to be out of control....if it were anything else then the above listed examples would be forced upon the owners to comply to their customer's wants...It is not correct to force this owner to comply with this and that goes against their religious beliefs/views/practices anymore than it would be like in the example of 'damaged eagle'....

I understand where you're comin' from, MW, but it was tried before and was outlawed.  Specifically, I'm referring to racial discrimination.

If a company provides a service to the general public, they should provide that service to all persons without regard for age, sex, race, religion, disability, or sexual preference, etc.



I have seen a shotgun pulled on a black man at a restaurant.  It was at the bar that is now called The Reef on Perdido Key... right down the road from Johnson's Beach... a black beach at the time.  Old lady Hall pulled out a double-barreled shotgun when a black guy came into the restaurant/bar.  He wanted a cheeseburger.  She pointed to a sign that said this was a "drive-in".  The bar was full of white folks at the time.  She said these folks are her friends and he wasn't.  She told him that he could order if he stood outside at the window where there was a buzzer.

I felt sorry for that guy... and ashamed I didn't say anything at the time.

Again, where do you draw the line?  The courts, for the most part, have said that sexual preference shall not be grounds for discrimination.

As a Christian, if I am a baker and I am asked to make a cake with a same sex couple atop, God is not going to bounce me out of the kingdom for baking and decorating that cake for them.

It's really not so complicated.

SheWrites wrote:

As a Christian, if I am a baker and I am asked to make a cake with a same sex couple atop, God is not going to bounce me out of the kingdom for baking and decorating that cake for them.  

It's really not so complicated.  

:

I don't mean to shut down a conversation and be declared a winner, at all. I just mention this as how I look at this particular situation.

Eric wrote:

I understand where you're comin' from, MW, but it was tried before and was outlawed.  Specifically, I'm referring to racial discrimination.

If a company provides a service to the general public, they should provide that service to all persons without regard for age, sex, race, religion, disability, or sexual preference, etc.



I have seen a shotgun pulled on a black man at a restaurant.  It was at the bar that is now called The Reef on Perdido Key... right down the road from Johnson's Beach... a black beach at the time.  Old lady Hall pulled out a double-barreled shotgun when a black guy came into the restaurant/bar.  He wanted a cheeseburger.  She pointed to a sign that said this was a "drive-in".  The bar was full of white folks at the time.  She said these folks are her friends and he wasn't.  She told him that he could order if he stood outside at the window where there was a buzzer.

I felt sorry for that guy... and ashamed I didn't say anything at the time.

Again, where do you draw the line?  The courts, for the most part, have said that sexual preference shall not be grounds for discrimination.

Little different....the gentleman you referred to was in an establishment that served what he wanted but due to the inequality of the laws at the time he because of being black was not even permitted to enter that or many other establishments that were white only....

You are correct the line isn't blurred it's been wiped out....Take 'gay' out of the equation and a customer asked for another kind of specialty cake that the baker didn't choose to provide and would there be the same uproar?...

1976 Anniston, Alabama....Attending MP School and finally got a weekend pass and a bunch of us went into town...a group of about 12 of us went into a diner and were told that eight of us could stay but the four blacks in the group weren't welcome.. There were other patrons there and they appeared to be ready to enforce that 'request'....1976!...Had heard about this but to actually encounter was almost unreal...As a group decided that we would all leave and go elsewhere....

SheWrites wrote:

I don't mean to shut down a conversation and be declared a winner, at all.  I just mention this as how I look at this particular situation.

Glad you know God's thoughts on this.....God killed two priests for getting their fire from the wrong source....

Num 3:4 New International Version
Nadab and Abihu, however, died before the LORD when they made an offering with unauthorized fire before him in the Desert of Sinai. They had no sons, so Eleazar and Ithamar served as priests during the lifetime of their father Aaron.

Please don't beat me up with the Old Testament. I know the stories. We live under a new covenant that shows mercy.

I beat you up...interesting way of putting it.....

so I will "Beat you up" with the New Testament.....

A man and his wife were killed by God for "harmlessly" lying....

Acts 5:3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”

“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”

9Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

10At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

OK, I know this story too. They lied. Lying does not escape God.

I don't see your point.

SheWrites wrote:

OK, I know this story too.  They lied.  Lying does not escape God.  

I don't see your point.

Point is you can't judge what is important or not to God.

Side thought, God of the old testament is the same God of the new testament. All that has changed is the Law was taken away because WE couldn't keep it. Because we are pathetic creatures unable to control ourselves and weak willed and worthless..... God decided to have mercy. He first showed us that the law could be kept in the example of his son but then allowed his son to take what are rightfully our sins upon himself on our behalf. The question then came shall we sin more now that grace may abound ?..LOL only a terribly flawed and nasty creature would have asked that question....that would be all of us. We have mercy yes but we should still stop sinning. Taking part in a sin such as making a cake for a gay marriage is sin to most right thinking Christians...if then the world wants to punish you for not being a part of their sin, then blessed are you Mr Baker cause you didn't sin...heaven may very well be yours....

Speaking of judging, doesn't the bible say "Judge not, lest you be judged"?

and didn't Jesus say "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"?

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Yeah that's what the sodomites said to Lot. Who are you to judge us. God burned them to a cinder. That whole don't judge thing is misused. Everyone had better start judging and soon. It's like you telling someone stop thinking I don't like what you are thinking. Judge righteous judgement based on scripture is what the text means. Judge by truth not feelings

Well, unless and angel of the Lord visits me and tells me to start judging - I'm going to leave that to God.

I'm too busy trying to get the splinter out of my eye while I turn the other cheek and love people as myself while loving God above all else.

I don't see anything about Lot.  All these come from the New Testament. Came from the internet... so, I hope they're accurate.

Luke 6:37
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Luke 6:41
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

John 8:7
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

Romans 2:1
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

Romans 14:10
You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

Romans 14:13
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.

James 4:11
Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

The point of all those verses is that you judge others as you judge yourself...you use the same standard , i.e.  yardstick to measure yourself as you use to measure others. Just saying not to judge is leaving out the rest of the message. We must judge spiritual things just as a doctor judges a man's physical condition....otherwise how would you know if someone needs care ? It does mean to judge yourself first....get the big sin (beam) out of your own eye then you may be able to get the speck out of your brother's eye....We can play lawyer here all day long but yes It is God who will judge all of us and I think most of us got an idea where we stand...

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

John 7:24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I don't judge the gays... do you, Teo?

That is my point.

I say live and let live. Come judgement day, it'll all be sorted out.