Airman refused reenlistment because he wouldn't say "So help me God" in his oath.

Full story at Air Force Times

Quote :

According to the AHA (American Humanist Association), the unnamed airman was told Aug. 25 that the Air Force would not accept his contract because he had crossed out the phrase “so help me God.” The airman was told his only options were to sign the religious oath section of the contract without adjustment and recite an oath concluding with “so help me God,” or leave the Air Force, the AHA said.

That is unconstitutional and unacceptable, the AHA said.

“The government cannot compel a nonbeliever to take an oath that affirms the existence of a supreme being,” Miller said. “Numerous cases affirm that atheists have the right to omit theistic language from enlistment or reenlistment contracts.”

Creech officials referred inquiries to Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada. Officials at Nellis referred questions to Air Force public affairs officers at the Pentagon, who had not confirmed the incident by Thursday night.

Personally, I don't think a non-believer should be forced to make that part of his reenlistment oath.

well if they are a non believer, what difference does it make?

Our money says in god we trust on it, and non believers use it.

The constitution guarantees freedom from religion, which means NO specific religion will be forced, but ALL religions will be allowed to be practiced.. This was a RE-enlistment contract, which immediately follows a discharge.. The OLD Air Force Instruction used to say “Note: Airmen may omit the words ‘so help me God,’ if desired for personal reasons.” Congress changed Title 10 USC 502 and took that line out in 2013..

Congress screwed up and the Air Force is following the US Code.

He signed the contract earlier, so when did he change and become an athiest, or did he cross it out in the original contract??

Jake92 wrote:

The constitution guarantees freedom from religion, which means NO specific religion will be forced,  but ALL religions will be allowed to be practiced..  This was a RE-enlistment contract, which immediately follows a discharge..  The OLD Air Force Instruction used to say  “Note: Airmen may omit the words ‘so help me God,’ if desired for personal reasons.”  Congress changed Title 10 USC 502 and took that line out in 2013..  

Congress screwed up and the Air Force is following the US Code.

He signed the contract earlier, so when did he change and become an athiest, or did he cross it out in the original contract??

That's a good point. That he signed it. Not sure why he would be like that.

after all, Im surprise the military is holding him to it at all, they have removed almost all religious stuff especially Christian out of the military the last few years.

maybe they need some news about it to stir people up because they want to change something else about religion in the military.

Jake92 wrote:

The constitution guarantees freedom from religion, which means NO specific religion will be forced,  but ALL religions will be allowed to be practiced..  This was a RE-enlistment contract, which immediately follows a discharge..  The OLD Air Force Instruction used to say  “Note: Airmen may omit the words ‘so help me God,’ if desired for personal reasons.”  Congress changed Title 10 USC 502 and took that line out in 2013..  

Congress screwed up and the Air Force is following the US Code.

He signed the contract earlier, so when did he change and become an athiest, or did he cross it out in the original contract??

Thought oaths had been made politically correct a long time ago....

Well, it looks like it DOESN'T take an act of Congress to change the Air Force's policy after all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/air-force-oath_n_5838802.html

From af.mil:

Quote :

In response to concerns raised by Airmen, the Department of the Air Force requested an opinion from the Department of Defense General Counsel addressing the legal parameters of the oath. The resulting opinion concluded that an individual may strike or omit the words “So help me God” from an enlistment or appointment oath if preferred.

If the press hadn't run with this story, they wouldn't have changed a damn thing, IMO.

Well if he believes in evolution he could just say so help me goo.  Who would know.

Chrissy* wrote:

well if they are a non believer, what difference does it make?

Our money says in god we trust on it, and non believers use it.

A minister recommended that "In God We Trust" be put on coins for the first time during the civil war. The North wanted something on their coins that hinted that God was on their side. E Pluribus Unum was on the currency from the beginning and meant "out of many, one." That was a statement that the states had all united to make one great nation. I like that one better. There are a lot of strange symbols on our currency and it is interesting to learn about them.

I agree that no one should be forced to swear an oath to any deity they don't believe in.

Eddard wrote:

Chrissy* wrote:

well if they are a non believer, what difference does it make?

Our money says in god we trust on it, and non believers use it.

A minister recommended  that "In God We Trust" be put on coins for the first time during the civil war. The North wanted something on their coins that hinted that God was on their side. E Pluribus Unum was on the currency from the beginning and meant "out of many, one." That was a statement that the states had all united to make one great nation. I like that one better.  There are a lot of strange symbols on our currency and it is interesting to learn about them.

I agree that no one  should be forced to swear an oath to any deity they don't believe in.

Fine. Perhaps many of them should not swear to uphold the constitution either, because they are not doing a good job of it.

Chrissy* wrote:

Eddard wrote:

Chrissy* wrote:

well if they are a non believer, what difference does it make?

Our money says in god we trust on it, and non believers use it.

A minister recommended  that "In God We Trust" be put on coins for the first time during the civil war. The North wanted something on their coins that hinted that God was on their side. E Pluribus Unum was on the currency from the beginning and meant "out of many, one." That was a statement that the states had all united to make one great nation. I like that one better.  There are a lot of strange symbols on our currency and it is interesting to learn about them.

I agree that no one  should be forced to swear an oath to any deity they don't believe in.

Fine. Perhaps many of them should not swear to uphold the constitution either, because they are not doing a good job of it.

I hope you're referring to our elected officials and not our servicemembers.

I don't believe in god, but I don't make a big friggin deal out of it. I respect others' beliefs and that their God is something that often brings them comfort. It is worth it to me to say grace when in "company" or to just go with the flow because it's not worth it to me to upset everyone else and to have to explain my beliefs to others. They are my beliefs and they are private... no one else's business. It's sort of like my own private Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, lol.

Welcome to the forum, Eddard

Yeah, welcome to the forum, man. Good post. I'm a believer, but folks should not be forced to recognize a deity that they don't believe in... to enlist/reenlist in the military or perform any other governmental position.

riceme wrote:

Chrissy* wrote:

Eddard wrote:

Chrissy* wrote:

well if they are a non believer, what difference does it make?

Our money says in god we trust on it, and non believers use it.

A minister recommended  that "In God We Trust" be put on coins for the first time during the civil war. The North wanted something on their coins that hinted that God was on their side. E Pluribus Unum was on the currency from the beginning and meant "out of many, one." That was a statement that the states had all united to make one great nation. I like that one better.  There are a lot of strange symbols on our currency and it is interesting to learn about them.

I agree that no one  should be forced to swear an oath to any deity they don't believe in.

Fine. Perhaps many of them should not swear to uphold the constitution either, because they are not doing a good job of it.

I hope you're referring to our elected officials and not our servicemembers.

I don't believe in god, but I don't make a big friggin deal out of it. I respect others' beliefs and that their God is something that often brings them comfort. It is worth it to me to say grace when in "company" or to just go with the flow because it's not worth it to me to upset everyone else and to have to explain my beliefs to others. They are my beliefs and they are private... no one else's business. It's sort of like my own private Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, lol.

I am absolutly refering to our service members as well as our elected officials.

they take a oath to protect the constitution as well.

I whole heartedily believe taking God out of our society is a HUGE mistake.

And it is said that the most strongest athiest becomes to pray to God in the fox hole or on the death bed.

What are your referring to when you say that servicemembers are not doing a good job upholding the constitution?

Eric wrote:

Yeah, welcome to the forum, man.  Good post.  I'm a believer, but folks should not be forced to recognize a deity that they don't believe in... to enlist/reenlist in the military or perform any other governmental position.

A common sense approach!...

Chrissy* wrote:

Eddard wrote:

Chrissy* wrote:

well if they are a non believer, what difference does it make?

Our money says in god we trust on it, and non believers use it.

A minister recommended  that "In God We Trust" be put on coins for the first time during the civil war. The North wanted something on their coins that hinted that God was on their side. E Pluribus Unum was on the currency from the beginning and meant "out of many, one." That was a statement that the states had all united to make one great nation. I like that one better.  There are a lot of strange symbols on our currency and it is interesting to learn about them.

I agree that no one  should be forced to swear an oath to any deity they don't believe in.

Fine. Perhaps many of them should not swear to uphold the constitution either, because they are not doing a good job of it.

Very good point...what's the punitive measures taken for say those that aren't and haven't enforced the immigration laws?...Those officials took and oath and they've failed not in a political sense of disagreement but rather selective enforcement of some laws simply because they disagree...

riceme wrote:

What are your referring to when you say that servicemembers are not doing a good job upholding the constitution?

Well, there's a catch 22 in the constitution that prevents me from saying what I want to say.

But know this, Marxism is a godless religion to where God is GOV.

one nation, under GOV and you better believe it.

From Wikipedia:

Quote :

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ..." and Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

The quote from Article VI doesn't specify this is for military (mostly elected officials), but I think that the intent of that article could apply to the military.

So, keeping God out of governmental functions is in keeping with the Constitution, not contrary to it.

Well then KEEP Government out of church functions...they won't let preachers say anything against the government or they remove their tax exempt  status. Churches used to be the place where people discussed things which affected their future and their faith as related to government leadership. The idea was to protect religion not government.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Well then KEEP Government out of church functions...they won't let preachers say anything against the government or they remove their tax exempt  status. Churches used to be the place where people discussed things which affected their future and their faith as related to government leadership. The idea was to protect religion not government.

C'mon, Teo. You know that there are rules for churches to get and keep tax exempt status. If they become a political organization and lobby for a candidate, they violate those rules.

Here is the skinny http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-07-41.pdf

Churches can push causes, like pro-life, but cannot lobby for particular pro-life candidates (and keep 501(c)(3) status).

Your statement wasn't specific about what was said, hence, my reply. Do you have a particular instance we can discuss?

I am pretty sure all those dead men that died fighting for freedom in WW1 and 2 are rolling in their graves at all this PC Bullsh-t...Funny how much little groups have changed America in the last 50 years....you can say it's a better country but that's because you can't feel the boiling water...

Back in WWI & WWII, that airman would have probably gotten his butt kicked and that would be the end of it.

We live in a different time, f'sure.