Sometimes you get what you asked for: ‘I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it"

Anyone who couldn't see this coming deserves what they get.

‘I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,’ ”

California residents are rebelling a bit against Obamacare, with thousands shocked by the sticker price and rethinking their support, saying that what seemed wonderful in principle is not translating so well into reality.
As Pam Kehaly, the president of Anthem Blue Cross in California, reported, she received a letter from one woman who saw her insurance rates rise by 50 percent due to Obamacare.
SEE ALSO: Troubled Obamacare site back online after crash
“She said, ‘I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,’ ” Ms. Kehaly said, in the Los Angeles Times.
Several hundred thousand other Californians in coming weeks may be feeling the same pinch, as insurers drop their plans and push them onto exchanges, medical analysts say. Blue Shield of California sent letters to 119,000 residents last month announcing the plans don’t meet federal mandates.
Kaiser Permanente, meanwhile, is canceling about 160,000 of its customers’ plans — about half of its base, the Los Angeles Times said. A majority of those who are being booted off their plans will face a rate increase from Obamacare.


“This is when the actual sticker shock comes into play for people,” said Gerald Kominski, director of the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research, in the Los Angeles Times. “There are winners and losers under the Affordable Care Act.”
Jennifer Harris, Fullerton resident, said she was shocked to receive a letter from her Health Net Inc. insurer that her plan — which costs $98 a month — was being dropped. The cheapest plan she said in the Los Angeles Times that she found is $238 a month.
“It doesn’t seem right to make the middle class pay so much more in order to give health insurance to everybody else,” she said, in the report. “This increase is simply not affordable.”

Middle-income earners will see their rates, on average, rise 30 percent in California, some experts estimate."


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/28/californian-i-was-all-obamacare-until-i-got-bill/#ixzz2j2q52OqF

nochain wrote:

Anyone who couldn't see this coming deserves what they get.

‘I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,’ ”

California residents are rebelling a bit against Obamacare, with thousands shocked by the sticker price and rethinking their support, saying that what seemed wonderful in principle is not translating so well into reality.
As Pam Kehaly, the president of Anthem Blue Cross in California, reported, she received a letter from one woman who saw her insurance rates rise by 50 percent due to Obamacare.
SEE ALSO: Troubled Obamacare site back online after crash
“She said, ‘I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,’ ” Ms. Kehaly said, in the Los Angeles Times.
Several hundred thousand other Californians in coming weeks may be feeling the same pinch, as insurers drop their plans and push them onto exchanges, medical analysts say. Blue Shield of California sent letters to 119,000 residents last month announcing the plans don’t meet federal mandates.
Kaiser Permanente, meanwhile, is canceling about 160,000 of its customers’ plans — about half of its base, the Los Angeles Times said. A majority of those who are being booted off their plans will face a rate increase from Obamacare.


“This is when the actual sticker shock comes into play for people,” said Gerald Kominski, director of the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research, in the Los Angeles Times. “There are winners and losers under the Affordable Care Act.”
Jennifer Harris, Fullerton resident, said she was shocked to receive a letter from her Health Net Inc. insurer that her plan — which costs $98 a month — was being dropped. The cheapest plan she said in the Los Angeles Times that she found is $238 a month.
“It doesn’t seem right to make the middle class pay so much more in order to give health insurance to everybody else,” she said, in the report. “This increase is simply not affordable.”

Middle-income earners will see their rates, on average, rise 30 percent in California, some experts estimate."


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/28/californian-i-was-all-obamacare-until-i-got-bill/#ixzz2j2q52OqF

It's a little difficult to feel sorry for those that supported this mess and now are complaining because they're seeing they have to pay....too bad some didn't see/listen to the warnings prior to getting to where we are...but they chose to listen to...believe a politician that promised everything to sell his plan and now the product is not close to being as sold...

I have a feeling BHOs lies are starting to catch up to him and he will have a hard time finding another body to throw under the bus. The bigger issue is - if he really is that uninformed why is he sitting in that office? Either that or he is lying. I can imagine there will be some interesting "tell all" books in print shortly after he leaves.

"What did Obama know, and when did he find out?"

White House faces accountability double whammy
President Obama has said "the buck stops with me." But when it comes to NSA spying and Obamacare, does it really?"
http://www.cnn.com/

nochain wrote:

I have a feeling BHOs lies are starting to catch up to him and he will have a hard time finding another body to throw under the bus. The bigger issue is - if he really is that uninformed why is he sitting in that office? Either that or he is lying. I can imagine there will be some interesting "tell all" books in print shortly after he leaves.

"What did Obama know, and when did he find out?"

White House faces accountability double whammy
President Obama has said "the buck stops with me." But when it comes to NSA spying and Obamacare, does it really?"
http://www.cnn.com/

Would be very difficult to believe the 'he didn't know' rhetoric...with decisions that went the right way he and his administraiton are front and center releasing photo ops to illustrate just how connected he is but when there's a problem suddenly he's on the sidelines in the dark?....To monitor other world leaders and not know would be unacceptable on so many levels but once again it's not the monitoring that's the problem because we and others have always done this....it's the after being caught cover-up and lies that are embarrassing...It's hillarious that former VP Cheney is in agreement with the cowh and is advising him to STOP apologizing and to continue taking the measures needed to protect the US...More damage is done in damage control mode than the infraction itself...This has been a pattern on just about every issue that's confronted this administration...

From that bastion of ultra-conservative politics - the Huffington Compost

And it's hard to believe this headline:

Sen. Dianne Feinstein Slams NSA Spying
WASHINGTON -- Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, hammered the National Security Agency Monday over reports it spied on foreign leaders and allies, and revealed that President Barack Obama said he would halt such eavesdropping.

A senior administration official denied the White House was stopping programs aimed at allies. A source close to Feinstein insisted the California lawmaker had been informed by Obama that spying on friendly leaders would cease.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/dianne-feinstein-nsa-spying_n_4171473.html

nochain wrote:

From that bastion of ultra-conservative politics - the Huffington Compost

And it's hard to believe this headline:

Sen. Dianne Feinstein Slams NSA Spying
WASHINGTON -- Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, hammered the National Security Agency Monday over reports it spied on foreign leaders and allies, and revealed that President Barack Obama said he would halt such eavesdropping.

A senior administration official denied the White House was stopping programs aimed at allies. A source close to Feinstein insisted the California lawmaker had been informed by Obama that spying on friendly leaders would cease.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/dianne-feinstein-nsa-spying_n_4171473.html

Does anyone feel comfortable with Feinstein leading a review of operations being conducted?...An un-named NSA employee said..."We are all screwed"....This is another example of amatuer hour....

BHO gets 4 pinocchios for his "If you like your insurance you can keep it" lie (told so many times it can't be denied) by none other than the Washington Posts Political Fact Checker. It's no surprise - any objective person could see the ACA for what it really is from a mile away - a piece of crap legislation chock full of unintended consequences and ill-considered federal mandates.

The Pinocchio Test
The administration is defending this pledge with a rather slim reed — that there is nothing in the law that makes insurance companies force people out of plans they were enrolled in before the law passed. That explanation conveniently ignores the regulations written by the administration to implement the law. Moreover, it also ignores the fact that the purpose of the law was to bolster coverage and mandate a robust set of benefits, whether someone wanted to pay for it or not.
The president’s statements were sweeping and unequivocal — and made both before and after the bill became law. The White House now cites technicalities to avoid admitting that he went too far in his repeated pledge, which, after all, is one of the most famous statements of his presidency.
The president’s promise apparently came with a very large caveat: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan — if we deem it to be adequate.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/?hpid=z1

nochain wrote:

BHO gets 4 pinocchios for his "If you like your insurance you can keep it" lie (told so many times it can't be denied) by none other than the Washington Posts Political Fact Checker. It's no surprise - any objective person could see the ACA for what it really is from a mile away - a piece of crap legislation chock full of unintended consequences and ill-considered federal mandates.

The Pinocchio Test
The administration is defending this pledge with a rather slim reed — that there is nothing in the law that makes insurance companies force people out of plans they were enrolled in before the law passed. That explanation conveniently ignores the regulations written by the administration to implement the law. Moreover, it also ignores the fact that the purpose of the law was to bolster coverage and mandate a robust set of benefits, whether someone wanted to pay for it or not.
The president’s statements were sweeping and unequivocal — and made both before and after the bill became law. The White House now cites technicalities to avoid admitting that he went too far in his repeated pledge, which, after all, is one of the most famous statements of his presidency.
The president’s promise apparently came with a very large caveat: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan — if we deem it to be adequate.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/?hpid=z1

Sebelius has already stated.......HE (cowh) DIDN'T KNOW!!!!!!......Read where one of the website tech heads/creators was a college mate of the first lady...There seems to be a whole lotta not knowing going on inside of this administration....GET READY......MSNBC ran a NEGATIVE piece on the cowh and his not knowing what's going on!!!!...You know things are bad!...

It's not even funny anymore when a lie told by BHO is not a lie according to his sheeple. The administration perpetuates the lie when it is now known they knew several years ago a lot of people would lose the coverage they liked. It's only going to get worse......

Well - now it appears the administration has failed to follow personnel hiring and procurement policy in their desperate attempt to sweep up the broken glass called Healthcare.gov. What a bunch of lying, misguided incompetents squandering tax dollars in a feeble attempt to glue together what was to be BHOs "signature achievement".

"1. Breaking procurement rules to fix Healthcare.gov?

In the weeks immediately following the failure of the federal government’s Obamacare exchange website, policy wonks who were inclined to attach larger meaning to the fiasco than the simple incompetence of those in charge pointed to how difficult and time-consuming government procurement is.

That’s why, according to this rationale, the same folks who were so inventive and effective in building campaign websites and mounting digital donation and get-out-the-vote campaigns couldn’t do the same when it came to launching their president’s highest-priority governing initiative.

Well, if the government’s rules are so constricting that nothing can be done leanly or quickly, how is it that the president was able to hire a new Healthcare.gov czar, Jeffrey Zients, last Tuesday, and have him on the job that afternoon — whereupon within 48 hours he had in turn hired Quality Software Services, Inc. to be the general contractor overseeing all the fixes?

How could all of that have happened so fast? Did the president use some kind of special emergency authority? If so, why couldn’t he have used it to bolster the effort to build the website in June or July when, by what is now almost everyone’s account, it became obvious that hitting the October 1 start date with the current talent and resources in place was going to be a problem?

How did Quality Software’s contract get negotiated in what must have been 24 or 48 hours? Is it a new contract, or an urgent extension of its existing contract to build some of the website’s features? How much is the firm getting paid, and on what basis, using what funds? Or is the contract not negotiated yet? And what about all the other (as yet un-named) members of what the administration calls a “tech surge” team, who are reportedly taking leaves from private sector jobs to help fix the website? Do they have contracts? What about Zients?

Again, knowing what the president and his team did to get past all of those stifling rules once they realized they had a disaster on their hands might tell us what they could have done before the disaster hit."

http://blogs.reuters.com/stories-id-like-to-see/2013/10/29/breaking-procurement-rules-to-fix-healthcare-gov-the-red-cross-and-sandy-and-westerners-choking-in-china/

nochain wrote:

It's not even funny anymore when a lie told by BHO is not a lie according to his sheeple. The administration perpetuates the lie when it is now known they knew several years ago a lot of people would lose the coverage they liked. It's only going to get worse......

     Listening to Sebelius now testifying.....EVERYTHING is fine....Changes are coming and Americans are not having rates raised and the keeping your plan and/or doctor is simply being dismissed with no answers given other than the cowh kept his word...????????????????.....No wonder there's such a distrust in Washington DC....Rep Waxman (D-CA) said this has been a success and Americans are and will be happy.....Rep Pallone (D-NJ)...its the GOP's fault and he's surprised that the secretary can keep her cool....Oh by the way the website crashed with Sebelius was given opening remarks that the system is being fixed and the problem was Verizon....

It's pretty obvious that everything isn't so fine with Obamacare. The insurance companies are cancelling policyholders whose policies have been fairly cheap but that didn't meet up to the standards of the Affordable Care Act. In order to afford policies that do hold up to the new law,policyholders are finding they have to pay more for their coverage. It's estimated that between 50 and 75% of private policy holders might be cancelled.
If that happens, the program will be a serious bust.
I was always for single payer, government provided health insurance like Medicare for all. American big business like the insurance providers are going to run the program into the ground with their greed. This is not the same type of insurance provided in places like England or Canada at all- that's single payer and works much better than this jury-rigged system is going to.
Obama should have stood his ground in the beginning of the fight for the single payer he campaigned on, but as soon as someone objected he took it off the table.
Just one more reason this POTUS has been a disappointment to us progressives as well as to you conservatives.

More Americans In 3 States Have Had Their Insurance Canceled Under ObamaCare Than Have Filed An Exchange Account In All 50 states

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/24/more-americans-have-had-their-insurance-canceled-under-obamacare-than-have-filed-an-exchange-account/

In the first two days only 248 enrolled in Oblamercare - not many out of the supposed 30M people who were DESPERATELY seeking coverage. What is that - .000826%?

The dirty little secret that Oblamercare proponents don't want folks to know is that they KNEW well in advance that millions would lose their current coverage. The reason for most policy cancellations is that they don't include coverage for items critical to the primary voter base "needs" of the progressive left - you know - birth control (ha ha and ha) maternity care, etc. That most middle age taxpayers don't need or want to have those items included in their health policy is not a concern to Oblamercare supporters. They NEED all those millions to pay higher rates for things don't need or want so the "savings" from premiums can be used to pay for free policies. I still can't believe that this convoluted program has lasted this long. However since this is Oblamers so-called signature contribution during his lackluster tenure to date I am not surprised. This administration will continue to lie and obfuscate reality regardless of whether it's cost becomes another huge drag on the economy. Just to make Oblamer look like he accomplished something. What a sick, sick joke these leftist money grubbing guerrillas have foisted on the public - again.

"For consumers whose health premiums will go up under new law, sticker shock leads to anger"
"Americans who face higher ­insurance costs under President Obama’s health-care law are angrily complaining about “sticker shock,” threatening to become a new political force opposing the law even as the White House struggles to convince other consumers that they will benefit from it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/for-consumers-whose-health-premiums-will-go-up-under-new-law-sticker-shock-leads-to-anger/2013/11/03/d858dd28-44a9-11e3-b6f8-3782ff6cb769_story.html?hpid=z1

nochain wrote:

The dirty little secret that Oblamercare proponents don't want folks to know is that they KNEW well in advance that millions would lose their current coverage. The reason for most policy cancellations is that they don't include coverage for items critical to the primary voter base "needs" of the progressive left - you know - birth control (ha ha and ha) maternity care, etc. That most middle age taxpayers don't need or want to have those items included in their health policy is not a concern to Oblamercare supporters. They NEED all those millions to pay higher rates for things don't need or want so the "savings" from premiums can be used to pay for free policies. I still can't believe that this convoluted program has lasted this long. However since this is Oblamers so-called signature contribution during his lackluster tenure to date I am not surprised. This administration will continue to lie and obfuscate reality regardless of whether it's cost becomes another huge drag on the economy. Just to make Oblamer look like he accomplished something. What a sick, sick joke these leftist money grubbing guerrillas have foisted on the public - again.

"For consumers whose health premiums will go up under new law, sticker shock leads to anger"
"Americans who face higher ­insurance costs under President Obama’s health-care law are angrily complaining about “sticker shock,” threatening to become a new political force opposing the law even as the White House struggles to convince other consumers that they will benefit from it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/for-consumers-whose-health-premiums-will-go-up-under-new-law-sticker-shock-leads-to-anger/2013/11/03/d858dd28-44a9-11e3-b6f8-3782ff6cb769_story.html?hpid=z1

I can't speak to what the administration actually knew or didn't know about the insurance companies response to Obamacare, so I'm not willing to blame them for the cancellations. The problem is that they are happening now, no matter who knew it, and hundreds of thousands of Americans are being affected by it.  I wasn't sure this hybrid mess would work out, but I honestly hoped it might. I think that's probably the administration's thinking on it too. There has to be a solution for the millions of uninsured and underinsured Americans out there who can't afford huge premiums. Once the states were allowed to refuse to expand their medicaid, that ended a good part of the benefits of the program. Those that are stuck between being welfare recipients and having a decent income are the ones I'm concerned about, and I'm not sure they will be served well by the program. The government will only reimburse so much and the blasted insurance companies are going to want more.
I think John McCain had a good suggestion when the health care debate  first started  and he wanted to lower the medicare age to 55 and forget the rest.  That would  have been a good  beginning for single payer in this country,but of course,old McCain ain't too popular with either party right now.

Otter wrote:

nochain wrote:

T

I can't speak to what the administration actually knew or didn't know about the insurance companies response to Obamacare, so I'm not willing to blame them for the cancellations.

The administration knew several years ago that insurance companies would be forced to cancel many policies because of the mandated policy requirements Big Brother decided needed to be included in every policy. That is the crux of the situation. Now reports indicate many large hospitals are only going to accept certain - higher dollar - ACA policies. Then the fight remains over what these newly issued policies will even pay - more likely not at rates that will be acceptable to the medical community. Add to that mess reductions in Medicare allowable fees and one has a certain Rx for disaster. Insurance reform? Yes. Obamacare? No!

Methinks the Insurance Companies just used this as a ruse to make a butt-load more money.

Y'know, I have never seen an insurance company lower their rates for me.

Eric wrote:

Methinks the Insurance Companies just used this as a ruse to make a butt-load more money.  

Y'know, I have never seen an insurance company lower their rates for me.  

Me neither.

nochain wrote:

The dirty little secret that Oblamercare proponents don't want folks to know is that they KNEW well in advance that millions would lose their current coverage. The reason for most policy cancellations is that they don't include coverage for items critical to the primary voter base "needs" of the progressive left - you know - birth control (ha ha and ha) maternity care, etc. That most middle age taxpayers don't need or want to have those items included in their health policy is not a concern to Oblamercare supporters. They NEED all those millions to pay higher rates for things don't need or want so the "savings" from premiums can be used to pay for free policies. I still can't believe that this convoluted program has lasted this long. However since this is Oblamers so-called signature contribution during his lackluster tenure to date I am not surprised. This administration will continue to lie and obfuscate reality regardless of whether it's cost becomes another huge drag on the economy. Just to make Oblamer look like he accomplished something. What a sick, sick joke these leftist money grubbing guerrillas have foisted on the public - again.

"For consumers whose health premiums will go up under new law, sticker shock leads to anger"
"Americans who face higher ­insurance costs under President Obama’s health-care law are angrily complaining about “sticker shock,” threatening to become a new political force opposing the law even as the White House struggles to convince other consumers that they will benefit from it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/for-consumers-whose-health-premiums-will-go-up-under-new-law-sticker-shock-leads-to-anger/2013/11/03/d858dd28-44a9-11e3-b6f8-3782ff6cb769_story.html?hpid=z1

Rep Joe Donnelly (D-Ind) announced at a democrat meeting that his son's insurance had been cancelled....guess he's been transitioned and will have to shop around!....Yesterday while campaigning in Virginia for McAulliffe...strange that neither the cowh or biden (yes there was a sighting) mentioned [name] cowh healthcare in any of their campaign stops...awaiting word from the cowh that he found out about the fiasco with HIS healthcare just as ordinary Americans did on their local news reports and that he's very upset ....heads will roll...AND of course...He didn't know...

The evolution of an Obama lie

Before: "if you like your current insurance, you keep that insurance"

Now: "Now, if you had one of these plans before the Affordable Care Act came into law and you really liked that plan, what we said was you can keep it if it hasn't changed since the law passed," he said.

Sorry Oblamer – that is NOT what you said.

The only ones that still believe or want to spin the lie are Oblamers sheeple aka progressive socialists.

a video produced by New York magazine shows Mr. Obama making the unqualified promise 23 times between October 2008 and September 2010. Over and over and over, the president repeats some version of his pledge that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.”
He never once mentions any caveats.
He tells it to the AARP. He tells it to the American Medical Association. He tells it to the entire nation in a weekly video address.
Once, in September 2010, Mr. Obama tells a group of supporters, “If you’re happy with what you’ve got, nobody’s changing it.”

Condensed video - 23 lies....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCUpJDzyRnY

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/5/obama-repeatedly-promised-people-could-keep-their-/#ixzz2jnlKUQcN

nochain wrote:

a video produced by New York magazine shows Mr. Obama making the unqualified promise 23 times between October 2008 and September 2010. Over and over and over, the president repeats some version of his pledge that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.”
He never once mentions any caveats.
He tells it to the AARP. He tells it to the American Medical Association. He tells it to the entire nation in a weekly video address.
Once, in September 2010, Mr. Obama tells a group of supporters, “If you’re happy with what you’ve got, nobody’s changing it.”

Condensed video - 23 lies....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCUpJDzyRnY

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/5/obama-repeatedly-promised-people-could-keep-their-/#ixzz2jnlKUQcN

He also said he didn't say the use of chemical weapons would cross a red line....he said he said...it was the world's red line and a game changer????...Now he didn't say if you like your plan you can keep it...So now this untruthfullness has risen to a level that if you see the cowh say something...he might really not have said it?...Teleprompter issues?...This administration has moved beyond the amatuer actions right into the lie lane...Even now the DNC Chairperson and other democrats are repeating the lie and are blaming the insurance companies...Once again the cowh DIDN'T KNOW the insurance companies would make changes to comply with the passage/implementation of [name] cowh healthcare and the effect of millions of Americans....and yet reports state otherwise and even say there were internal debates/disagreement about the cowh stating and repeating his pledge (lie)....Robert Gibbs the former press secretary was interviewed and added that many reccommended to the cowh not to do this but POLITICS overruled the arguments of honesty and common sense....

There have been books wrote about all the lies George W and his crew told to the American people. Presidential lies are a long tradition. Nixon lied, Kennedy lied, Reagan lied (Iran Contra), Clinton lied- they all lie. They are politicians,  so it's to be expected.

I agree that so far Obamacare is not what I expected, and so do nearly all the hosts on Progress radio and on the TV networks. That's the difference in progressives and liberals and conservatives. We are able to know and to say out loud that something someone is doing in the Democratic party is all screwed up (I'd use another word, but this is a civil forum), but I never hear that from the right side of the spectrum. You all defend the righties no matter what and assume that the left is happy with Obama. FYI, most of the people in this country who actually are willing to call themselves liberals or progressives have not been particularly happy with Obama. We consider him to be Bush-lite.Since you don't listen to liberal radio,  I guess you don't know that.
But we also know what the Republican party has to offer, and it ain't worth chit.

Leaving the health care system like it was, with 40 or 50 million Americans uninsured and the rest of us paying their bills was not an option.

Otter wrote:

There have been books wrote about all the lies George W and his crew told to the American people. Presidential lies are a long tradition. Nixon lied, Kennedy lied, Reagan lied (Iran Contra), Clinton lied- they all lie. They are politicians,  so it's to be expected.

You all defend the righties no matter what and assume that the left is happy with Obama. FYI, most of the people in this country who actually are willing to call themselves liberals or progressives have not been particularly happy with Obama. We consider him to be Bush-lite.Since you don't listen to liberal radio,  I guess you don't know that.
But we also know what the Republican party has to offer, and it ain't worth chit.

Leaving the health care system like it was, with 40 or 50  million Americans uninsured and the rest of us paying their bills was not an option.

The problem is the Obama lie has affected millions of innocent people in this country - at their expense - in order to pay for those who didn't have health insurance (whether by choice (most of them I suspect), physical condition, or lack of money). So it's a circular argument - pay higher prices as things are now - even if you have insurance - so medical facilities can recoup losses from those that don't have insurance - or pay higher premiums for policies that have additions mandated by the all knowing, all seeing OZ that most people don't need or want. Also lets cut Medicare by over $700 billion to states so the Feds can make use of the difference in order to cover some of the cost of providing free insurance. This is a lose lose proposition. Speaking to the "defend the righties" - you have me mistaken for someone else - I have been saying for some time ALL of the politicians in D.C. should be canned for incompetence. The Tea Baggers have drowned out the moderate R's who could have worked with moderate D's to solve problems. No, there is no defense for either party right now.

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

There have been books wrote about all the lies George W and his crew told to the American people. Presidential lies are a long tradition. Nixon lied, Kennedy lied, Reagan lied (Iran Contra), Clinton lied- they all lie. They are politicians,  so it's to be expected.

You all defend the righties no matter what and assume that the left is happy with Obama. FYI, most of the people in this country who actually are willing to call themselves liberals or progressives have not been particularly happy with Obama. We consider him to be Bush-lite.Since you don't listen to liberal radio,  I guess you don't know that.
But we also know what the Republican party has to offer, and it ain't worth chit.

Leaving the health care system like it was, with 40 or 50  million Americans uninsured and the rest of us paying their bills was not an option.

The problem is the Obama lie has affected millions of innocent people in this country - at their expense - in order to pay for those who didn't have health insurance (whether by choice (most of them I suspect), physical condition, or lack of money). So it's a circular argument - pay higher prices as things are now - even if you have insurance - so medical facilities can recoup losses from those that don't have insurance - or pay higher premiums for policies that have additions mandated by the all knowing, all seeing OZ that most people don't need or want. Also lets cut Medicare by over $700 billion to states so the Feds can make use of the difference in order to cover some of the cost of providing free insurance. This is a lose lose proposition. Speaking to the "defend the righties" - you have me mistaken for someone else - I have been saying for some time ALL of the politicians in D.C. should be canned for incompetence. The Tea Baggers have drowned out the moderate R's who could have worked with moderate D's to solve problems. No, there is no defense for either party right now.

This was....again by his own words going to be the most OPEN and Transparant Administration in the History of the United States and the status quo way of doing business in DC was over.....One of the first moves...Closed...secretive...behind the door deals in order to ram [cowh] healthcare through....In the case of defending righties....with this healthcare mess---this is all on the cowh and democrats it's theirs to own....this passed w/o one republican vote and that was by design...Now there are democrats jumping ship so it's not defending...for once they and others were correct...People whine about the Tea party but they were correct and warned against [name] cowh healthcare...would they somehow be better for the system if they rolled over and supported this mess?....What's caused the problems are the weak kneed...spineless career politicans that will bend over time after time depending on which way the political winds are blowing at that time in order to appear moderate and/or independent...It would seem that if they along with financial...medical experts could see a problem then why would they support this?...lastly when this was being done the republicans were excluded and it was the democrats that said...let's pass it and then see what's inside...It must really sting some to have to admit that no matter the attempts to spin and blame this cannot be blamed on the Tea Party and or the Republicans.....Americans are coming out of their fog and the media is starting to question those that have been given a free ride for over five years...