So you think they've got your back.....

Otter wrote:

nochain wrote:

Of course people forget that warnings were made well in advance and many of the folks who went to the dome could have been out of town if they had listened. Thinning the herd is never a pretty sight.....then again they got free shoes because that's more important than eating.

The snide remarks about people in N.O. being too dumb to get out of town have been going around for years, and that's all they are, snide remarks. People didn't go into the superdome unless they had nowhere else to go, but having nowhere else to go does not mean they were out there looting shoes. The looting went on while people were still in the dome.

I have lived and worked in New Orleans. Have you? The people ignored orders to leave. Trains and buses were available but at some point folks have to help themselves.

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

nochain wrote:

Of course people forget that warnings were made well in advance and many of the folks who went to the dome could have been out of town if they had listened. Thinning the herd is never a pretty sight.....then again they got free shoes because that's more important than eating.

The snide remarks about people in N.O. being too dumb to get out of town have been going around for years, and that's all they are, snide remarks. People didn't go into the superdome unless they had nowhere else to go, but having nowhere else to go does not mean they were out there looting shoes. The looting went on while people were still in the dome.

I have lived and worked in New Orleans. Have you? The people ignored orders to leave. Trains and buses were available but at some point folks have to help themselves.

I don't have to tell you on this forum what my relationship to New Orleans is, but I suspect I know just about as much about the place as you do. I'm probably in that city a lot more than you are if you no longer live there.  The people who went into the Superdome were trying to help themselves.  It was high ground and FYI, the quarter didn't actually flood that much at all during Katrina, even after the levees broke. Historically that is the highest area of the city.  Katrina was the strongest storm since Camille in 1969 and most people in New Orleans and in fact in the country didn't remember what a real hurricane was like. Nobody warned them that the levees were going to break because they did not know the levees were going to break until they did. It was always a possibility but whether you remember or not, they did not break until after the storm had actually passed.  Had the only damage they had there been directly from the hurricane winds of the storm, it would have not been a bigger disaster than we had in Ivan. Winds did a lot more damage in Gulfport and Biloxi than they did in New Orleans.

With the damage done here in Pensacola during Ivan a lot of us should have evacuated too but didn't. . I sure took my family out of town when we had the scare of Dennis the next year.

No, there were not enough buses and trains to evacuate the city. That's hogwash and if you believe it you've been so brainwashed by Fox that you might think about thinning out your own herd.

You obviously feel superior to the people that live there- I know better. I read the forum.

That reminds me of the story of a guy that prays to win the lottery.

Eventually, God tells him he will win the lottery.

For several weeks, the man plans on winning the lottery, but never does.  He is getting pissed.

When he expresses his dismay in a prayer... God said "You gotta buy a ticket".

---

When you live in a city that is below sea level and a huge hurricane is imminent, you gotta get the hell out of there.  I guess none of them have heard of Murphy's Laws?

What in HELL were they waiting for?

Eric wrote:

That reminds me of the story of a guy that prays to win the lottery.

Eventually, God tells him he will win the lottery.

For several weeks, the man plans on winning the lottery, but never does.  He is getting pissed.

When he expresses his dismay in a prayer... God said "You gotta buy a ticket".

---

When you live in a city that is below sea level and a huge hurricane is imminent, you gotta get the hell out of there.  I guess none of them have heard of Murphy's Laws?

What in HELL were they waiting for?

Eric, I know several people there that don't have cars to evacuate in. Most of the people in the dome could not get out of town. You can't just willy nilly say that everyone who stayed in New Orleans was an idiot.  There was not enough public transportation for them to get out. That's a true fact.  Walking wouldn't have gotten them far.  In addition, the Quarter is the highest part of the city. People that live there know that.  If you check some resources, you'll see that anyone staying in the quarter, even after the levees broke, was perfectly safe. The bars were the first thing open after the storm because Bourbon Street did not flood.
Our neighborhood was a disaster area after Ivan. Why the hell did we not get out of town? Pensacola people didn't want to leave their homes either and therefore are equally as stupid as the people in New Orleans were.
That town has been there longer than most of the cities in America and is still there. The house we stay at when we stay over there sometimes was built in the 1700's. It's withstood a lot of storms. We could have stayed inside that house during Katrina and even after the levees broke and have been perfectly fine. Just maybe some of the people living there figured their homes would withstand this storm just like all the other storms they've had.  But just maybe a whole lot of them had no way to leave.

Hindsight is always 20-20.  Claiming the "herd needed thinning" because of a disaster is nothing but ignorance itself. Maybe those people in Lake Charlene and on Bayou Boulevard and in Gulf Breeze should have evacuated two weeks ago when the weather warned them of flooding. I guess Pensacola's herd needs thinning big time, huh?

But, Otter, the bus and train stations weren't inundated with people trying to evacuate.  I don't think they wanted to leave.  Just because it hasn't flooded in previous hurricanes, doesn't mean it won't flood in the next one.

They issued evacuation orders and these orders weren't heeded... for whatever reason.  

Sure, the areas above sea level are okay to stay, I guess, but much of NO is below sea level.  Those folks should have evacuated.

I'll bet that, during the next big one, they'll heed the warnings and get out... levee fix or no fix.

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

nochain wrote:

Of course people forget that warnings were made well in advance and many of the folks who went to the dome could have been out of town if they had listened. Thinning the herd is never a pretty sight.....then again they got free shoes because that's more important than eating.

The snide remarks about people in N.O. being too dumb to get out of town have been going around for years, and that's all they are, snide remarks. People didn't go into the superdome unless they had nowhere else to go, but having nowhere else to go does not mean they were out there looting shoes. The looting went on while people were still in the dome.

I have lived and worked in New Orleans. Have you? The people ignored orders to leave. Trains and buses were available but at some point folks have to help themselves.

So what these posts have pointed out....this was a disaster waiting to happen and there was blame at all levels so those that continue to blame President Bush alone then they've learned nothing from the tragedy and that lack of thinking may repeat the same problems...With it being May hope that the folks in NO have a plan and get the information to the people..

Eric wrote:

But, Otter, the bus and train stations weren't inundated with people trying to evacuate.  I don't think they wanted to leave.  Just because it hasn't flooded in previous hurricanes, doesn't mean it won't flood in the next one.

They issued evacuation orders and these orders weren't heeded... for whatever reason.  

Sure, the areas above sea level are okay to stay, I guess, but much of NO is below sea level.  Those folks should have evacuated.

I'll bet that, during the next big one, they'll heed the warnings and get out... levee fix or no fix.

They may try to and they may run into the same problems leaving that were there before. Exactly where would you have advised them to go prior to Katrina, by the way? They could have gone to Gulfport or Biloxi and been blown off the map with worse winds than were in New Orleans. If they'd gone up to Baton Rouge, well, they had some serious problems up there too. In fact, our son drove to Baton Rouge to pick someone up and bring them here to Pensacola prior to Katrina and we worried the whole time he was on the road home. And if they had completely evacuated the city and used millions of dollars to do so and the storm had turned west, there would have been an outcry from half the country about taxes being spent for nothing.
Everyone needs to remember that there had not been a storm like Katrina since Camille which was 36 years, half a lifetime to most people. It wasn't like it is today when we have strong memories of what a storm can do. Oh, there was Andrew. I guess God was trying to "thin the herd" of a lot of Floridians in that one because the most devastated areas during that storm were not evacuated either.
What I'm saying, and I don't want to, is that New Orleans has been used by a lot of people as an example of a place which we all know is and was a "chocolate" city, where the people did not evacuate and it's been used by some as a way to not too subtly imply that it's because they were just too ignorant. Nobody made an issue when Pensacola didn't evacuate prior to Ivan or Biloxi didn't evacuate prior to Camille or Miami didn't totally evacuate during Andrew. I'm sorry, but When people use terms like thinning the herd, this part of the herd isn't too stupid to get the implication.
You may not agree, but that's the implication I get and it annoys me.

Otter wrote:

Eric wrote:

But, Otter, the bus and train stations weren't inundated with people trying to evacuate.  I don't think they wanted to leave.  Just because it hasn't flooded in previous hurricanes, doesn't mean it won't flood in the next one.

They issued evacuation orders and these orders weren't heeded... for whatever reason.  

Sure, the areas above sea level are okay to stay, I guess, but much of NO is below sea level.  Those folks should have evacuated.

I'll bet that, during the next big one, they'll heed the warnings and get out... levee fix or no fix.

They may try to and they may run into the same problems leaving that were there before. Exactly where would you have advised them to go prior to Katrina, by the way?  They could have gone to Gulfport or Biloxi and been blown off the map with worse winds than were in New Orleans. If they'd gone up to Baton Rouge, well, they had some serious problems up there too. In fact, our son drove to Baton Rouge to pick someone up and bring them here to Pensacola prior to Katrina and we worried the whole time he was on the road home. And if they had completely evacuated the city and used millions of dollars to do so and the storm had turned west, there would have been an outcry from half the country about taxes being spent for nothing.
Everyone needs to remember that there had not been a storm like Katrina since Camille which was 36 years, half a lifetime to most people.  It wasn't like it is today when we have strong memories of what a storm can do. Oh, there was Andrew. I guess God was trying to "thin the herd" of a lot of Floridians in that one because the most devastated areas during that storm were not evacuated either.
What I'm saying, and I don't want to, is that New Orleans has been used by a lot of people as an example of a place which we all know is and was a "chocolate" city, where the people did not evacuate and it's been used by some as a way to not too subtly imply that it's because they were just too ignorant.  Nobody made an issue when Pensacola didn't evacuate prior to Ivan or Biloxi didn't evacuate prior to Camille or Miami didn't totally evacuate during Andrew. I'm sorry, but When people use terms like thinning the herd, this part of the herd isn't too stupid to get the implication.
You may not agree, but that's the implication I get and it annoys me.

For the record it was former Mayor Ray Nagin (D) that made the comment 'chocolate city'....so if thay meant 'subtly imply' they were ignorant...remember that was the former mayor's words and certainly didn't portray his city well but then again he ripped the city off and has been indicted...You can't make people evacuate but you can only advise them that when the ____ hits the fan they are own their own and it's too late...

Where would they go?  How about someplace higher than sea level... duh.  I don't think going to another coastal city would be recommended.  Find some higher ground farther inland.

Eric wrote:

Where would they go?  How about someplace higher than sea level... duh.  I don't think going to another coastal city would be recommended.  Find some higher ground farther inland.

Sounds reasonable and there was enough warning prior..

[quote="mediawatcher"]

Eric wrote:

Where would they go?  How about someplace higher than sea level... duh.  I don't think going to another coastal city would be recommended.  Find some higher ground farther inland.

     Sounds reasonable and there was enough warning prior.... Like him or not... when the storm was approaching the east coast...NJ Governor Christie used plain...blunt language and told people to "Get the hell out"...There is however just so much that can be done and the hope is that people will pay attention...

Otter wrote:

Eric wrote:

T

Hindsight is always 20-20.  Claiming the "herd needed thinning" because of a disaster is nothing but ignorance itself. I guess Pensacola's herd needs thinning big time, huh?

LOL! Ignorance or humor? Apparently you don't know the difference looking down from that ivory tower. The ignorance occurred after Katrina when the "residents" started looting, robbing, and raping instead of trying to help "their" city recover using whatever means available. That tells me a lot about their thinking prior to the storm.

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

Eric wrote:

T

Hindsight is always 20-20.  Claiming the "herd needed thinning" because of a disaster is nothing but ignorance itself.  I guess Pensacola's herd needs thinning big time, huh?

LOL! Ignorance or humor? Apparently you don't know the difference looking down from that ivory tower. The ignorance occurred after Katrina when the "residents" started looting, robbing, and raping instead of trying to help "their" city recover using whatever means available. That tells me a lot about their thinking prior to the storm.

Would appear that the 'herd chose to be thinned'....Still having difficult how the crimes mentioned above is acceptable behavior...those that participated are/were criminals...Criminals just took advantage of the situation to help themselves...Same thing happened here...soon after the storm passed convenience stores began being hit...scratch off tickets were a hot item...Were some arrests as the morons didn't realize that the tickets were numbered and listed as stolen when they tried to cash them in...

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

Eric wrote:

T

Hindsight is always 20-20.  Claiming the "herd needed thinning" because of a disaster is nothing but ignorance itself.  I guess Pensacola's herd needs thinning big time, huh?

LOL! Ignorance or humor? Apparently you don't know the difference looking down from that ivory tower. The ignorance occurred after Katrina when the "residents" started looting, robbing, and raping instead of trying to help "their" city recover using whatever means available. That tells me a lot about their thinking prior to the storm.

As I said, the people in the dome were the ones we were talking about and that looting went on while the dome was still full of refugees. Yes, there was looting. Hey, if you want to blame that on somebody, like I said, George W Could have called out the National Guard at any moment even before the storm to protect downtown against looting. He had the absolute power to nationalize the Guard. He could have had them patrolling the streets before the flooding started. Nope. He sat back and didn't do anything.

Certainly looting qualifies as a civil emergency or uprising?

Most of the citizens of New Orleans did not do the looting. Only a small percentage did. I get it. Some people don't like New Orleans because it's mostly black. Other people think it is the most historic city on the North American continent and there's not another city in America that could ever take its place. I personally believe the second of those two.
Some people think  the people there are  ignorant because they didn't pack their suitcases and walk out of the city to "higher ground" which is not available anywhere in Southern Louisiana (at least not in walking distance.)
I'll say this one more time and quit- a huge amount of people who live there do not have cars. No one offered school buses to evacuate the city. People could not get out.
THEY COULD NOT GET OUT. And even if they could, no one truly foresaw the disaster it might be because they hadn't seen a hurricane like Katrina since Camille.

There's no point in arguing with folks who just can't grasp the concept of thousands of city dwellers without cars.  I'll quit. But before I do, I'd also like to point out that the cops were shooting people who tried to get out on foot even after the storm.

http://workbench.cadenhead.org/news/2748/police-trapped-thousands-new-orleans


I guess they could just show their ignorance by staying in town with flooding and no food or die trying to get out. Not much of a choice between the two that I can think of.

By the way- if I'd have been hungry and stuck over there after the storm- I'd have looted Rousseaus the first thing.If you're gonna loot anyway you might as well loot some good barbeque.

WHY do YOU always bring race into everything ""Some people don't like New Orleans because it's mostly black."" and it's ALWAYS how everybody is against the blacks??? The ONLY thing I have against New Orleans people is that the crime rate is so high and the ones that came to P'cola after Ivan and Katrina increased the crime rate in P'cola instead of getting their own city straight and getting rid of the druggies, crooks, police, and crooked politicians.... They should work at fixing their own reputation and city instead of bringing down P'cola.. If New Orleans is sooooooo great, WHY did a lot of the ones that evacuated settle in P'cola and other NW FL towns??

Jake92 wrote:

WHY do YOU always bring race into everything ""Some people don't like New Orleans because it's mostly black."" and it's ALWAYS how everybody is against the blacks???  The ONLY thing I have against New Orleans people is that the crime rate is so high and the ones that came to P'cola after Ivan and Katrina increased the crime rate in P'cola instead of getting their own city straight and getting rid of the druggies, crooks, police, and crooked politicians....  They should work at fixing their own reputation and city instead of bringing down P'cola..  If New Orleans is sooooooo great, WHY did a lot of the ones that evacuated settle in P'cola and other NW FL towns??

Some people just can't help themselves...but it is disturbing that race is used so quickly for excuses....When people comment and say 'thugs' or 'ignorance' is a code word for "implying' something perhaps they've got the problem... When it becomes politically incorrect to call out criminals then once again political correctness is out of control...

Bush this...Bush that...The Governor of LA (at the time) is in control of their National Guard....so if nothing was done (as stated) then maybe to seek answers start with the governor...This may have played a large part why she and the mayor were ousted from their offices...Further, Nagin and the Governor were in a power struggle and the lack of support getting to those folks in the Superdome may have worsened the situation...President's depend on local officials for requests and information to what they want from the Federal Government...As pointed out before then Mayor Nagin has been indicted for ripping off his citizens to profit for himself...It was the same Ray Nagin that called NO a chocolate city as blame for the lack of support but good ole Ray didn't seem to worry about lining his pockets...

[quote="Otter"][quote="nochain"]

Otter wrote:

Eric wrote:

T

As I said, the people in the dome were the ones we were talking about and that looting went on while the dome was still full of refugees. Yes, there was looting. Hey, if you want to blame that on somebody, like I said, George W Could have called out the National Guard at any moment even before the storm to protect downtown against looting. He had the absolute power to nationalize the Guard. He could have had them patrolling the streets before the flooding started. Nope. He sat back and didn't do anything.

Certainly looting qualifies as a civil emergency or uprising?

Most of the citizens of New Orleans did not do the looting. Only a small percentage did. I get it. Some people don't like New Orleans because it's mostly black. Other people think it is the most historic city on the North American continent and there's not another city in America that could ever take its place. I personally believe the second of those two.
Some people think  the people there are  ignorant because they didn't pack their suitcases and walk out of the city to "higher ground" which is not available anywhere in Southern Louisiana (at least not in walking distance.)
I'll say this one more time and quit- a huge amount of people who live there do not have cars. No one offered school buses to evacuate the city. People could not get out.
THEY COULD NOT GET OUT. And even if they could, no one truly foresaw the disaster it might be because they hadn't seen a hurricane like Katrina since Camille.

There's no point in arguing with folks who just can't grasp the concept of thousands of city dwellers without cars.  I'll quit. But before I do, I'd also like to point out that the cops were shooting people who tried to get out on foot even after the storm.

http://workbench.cadenhead.org/news/2748/police-trapped-thousands-new-orleans


I guess they could just show their ignorance by staying in town with flooding and no food  or die trying to get out. Not much of a choice between the two that I can think of.

By the way- if I'd have been hungry and stuck over there after the storm- I'd have looted Rousseaus the first thing.If you're gonna loot anyway you might as well loot some good barbeque.

Bush's fault? Call the Guard in BEFORE flooding started (before and during the storm)???? Why - so they could be trapped too? You bypassed a WHOLE bunch of command layers by jumping to the White House - what about the LA Governor? How about the Mayor of N.O.? Are their hands clean because it was Bush in office? And please give the race card a rest, it's so overused it has lost it's meaning.

BTW, Bush did take preemptive action:

"President Bush took the unusual step of declaring, in advance, an emergency for the states in the impact zone; numerous media reports noted that New Orleans was a “bowl,” and could be left submerged by the storm"

Many warnings were issued well in advance. Too many people ignored them including the Mayor, State Transportation Director, and LA Governor who failed to specify to the Federal Gov. shortfalls in their emergency response capability including transportation.

There is plenty of blame to go around but like they tell us here, if a hurricane is coming get out or be prepared to take care of yourself without outside assistance for at least 3 days. Real rocket science.

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

Eric wrote:

T

As I said, the people in the dome were the ones we were talking about and that looting went on while the dome was still full of refugees. Yes, there was looting. Hey, if you want to blame that on somebody, like I said, George W Could have called out the National Guard at any moment even before the storm to protect downtown against looting. He had the absolute power to nationalize the Guard. He could have had them patrolling the streets before the flooding started. Nope. He sat back and didn't do anything.

Certainly looting qualifies as a civil emergency or uprising?

Most of the citizens of New Orleans did not do the looting. Only a small percentage did. I get it. Some people don't like New Orleans because it's mostly black. Other people think it is the most historic city on the North American continent and there's not another city in America that could ever take its place. I personally believe the second of those two.
Some people think  the people there are  ignorant because they didn't pack their suitcases and walk out of the city to "higher ground" which is not available anywhere in Southern Louisiana (at least not in walking distance.)
I'll say this one more time and quit- a huge amount of people who live there do not have cars. No one offered school buses to evacuate the city. People could not get out.
THEY COULD NOT GET OUT. And even if they could, no one truly foresaw the disaster it might be because they hadn't seen a hurricane like Katrina since Camille.

There's no point in arguing with folks who just can't grasp the concept of thousands of city dwellers without cars.  I'll quit. But before I do, I'd also like to point out that the cops were shooting people who tried to get out on foot even after the storm.

http://workbench.cadenhead.org/news/2748/police-trapped-thousands-new-orleans


I guess they could just show their ignorance by staying in town with flooding and no food  or die trying to get out. Not much of a choice between the two that I can think of.

By the way- if I'd have been hungry and stuck over there after the storm- I'd have looted Rousseaus the first thing.If you're gonna loot anyway you might as well loot some good barbeque.

Bush's fault? Call the Guard in BEFORE flooding started (before and during the storm)???? Why - so they could be trapped too? You bypassed a WHOLE bunch of command layers by jumping to the White House - what about the LA Governor? How about the Mayor of N.O.? Are their hands clean because it was Bush in office? And please give the race card a rest, it's so overused it has lost it's meaning.

BTW, Bush did take preemptive action:

"President Bush took the unusual step of declaring, in advance, an emergency for the states in the impact zone; numerous media reports noted that New Orleans was a “bowl,” and could be left submerged by the storm"

Many warnings were issued well in advance. Too many people ignored them including the Mayor, State Transportation Director, and LA Governor who failed to specify to the Federal Gov. shortfalls in their emergency response capability including transportation.

There is plenty of blame to go around but like they tell us here, if a hurricane is coming get out or be prepared to take care of yourself without outside assistance for at least 3 days. Real rocket science.

But it's much easier to continue to spew the company line and blame Bush...Were there the same complaints from Alabama and Mississippi?...Maybe their state leaders actually did what they were elected to do...BE LEADERS!...

Where is the crying when thousands of acres of farmland is flooded and hundreds or thousands of houses are destroyed during floods in the midwest when the rivers rise with heavy rains or spring thaws?? The citizens actually work together to help rebuild their houses and everything.. The federal govt is not called in to do everything to save them.. They do it themselves....

Jake92 wrote:

Where is the crying when thousands of acres of farmland is flooded and hundreds or thousands of houses are destroyed during floods in the midwest when the rivers rise with heavy rains or spring thaws??  The citizens actually work together to help rebuild their houses and everything..  The federal govt is not called in to do everything to save them..  They do it themselves....

Tornados?....Entire communities destroyed and yes the federal government certainly plays a part in the recovery but it's the strength of these communities and their citizens that leads to success stories and rebuilding...Also amazing that when communities are hit...not one case of looting...calm down 'otter' that's not code for implying anything it's just nice to see there are folks that know right/wrong and won't lower themselves to take advantage of a situation for personal gains...

Otter, I never said the people had to walk to higher ground.

There were obviously tons of busses that could take most, if not all of these people outta town... see my earlier picture as an example.  If they don't drive cars, they are not expected to routinely walk everywhere, so saying they have to walk to higher ground is obviously facetious.  I suspect most ride busses to get around already, so why can't they utilize a mode of transportation they normally use?  

I'm not going to get into the Bush vs. State's rights argument.  With proper planning and with some coordination, those folks could have been orderly evacuated.

My point is that these people were lulled into complacency when other hurricanes (notably Camille) hit in the area and their houses didn't flood.  "Crying wolf" about hurricanes so many times before probably had some of them rolling their eyes... "Evacuate?  Yeah, right."

After the Katrina lesson, I would hope that emergency operations planners have contingency plans to commandeer fleets of busses... and I would hope that the populace will be eager to leave when the next "big one" comes to town.  Man-made structures like levees can and will fail, as evidenced by what happened during Katrina.  

As callous as this sounds, I won't have much sympathy for those people if they didn't learn from this experience.  Shame me once, shame on you.  Shame me twice, shame on me.

Eric wrote:

Otter, I never said the people had to walk to higher ground.

There were obviously tons of busses that could take most, if not all of these people outta town... see my earlier picture as an example.  If they don't drive cars, they are not expected to routinely walk everywhere, so saying they have to walk to higher ground is obviously facetious.  I suspect most ride busses to get around already, so why can't they utilize a mode of transportation they normally use?  

I'm not going to get into the Bush vs. State's rights argument.  With proper planning and with some coordination, those folks could have been orderly evacuated.

My point is that these people were lulled into complacency when other hurricanes (notably Camille) hit in the area and their houses didn't flood.  "Crying wolf" about hurricanes so many times before probably had some of them rolling their eyes... "Evacuate?  Yeah, right."

After the Katrina lesson, I would hope that emergency operations planners have contingency plans to commandeer fleets of busses... and I would hope that the populace will be eager to leave when the next "big one" comes to town.  Man-made structures like levees can and will fail, as evidenced by what happened during Katrina.  

As callous as this sounds, I won't have much sympathy for those people if they didn't learn from this experience.  Shame me once, shame on you.  Shame me twice, shame on me.

 



I guess we will have to disagree on this one Eric, because from people who lived there my understanding is that  there were not sufficient buses to evacuate the thousands of people living in the French Quarter as well as some living in adjacent  areas like Treme and even some in apartments in the CBD who did not have vehicles to use. The evacuation wasn't ordered until a day or so before the storm. Not enough buses were ordered in to service the evacuation of that many people. There were fights trying to get onto the buses by people frightened and desperate not to be left there to drown. That's human nature, whether we want to admit it or not. Frightened people do desperate things. Some would not leave because they couldn't bring their pets along. I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation, but it would be very difficult to leave either of my dogs in a house I thought would flood. I might decide to stay and fight it out with them too.
I too hope that things will be better managed during the next storm, but I can't agree that Bush had no part in what happened after the storm either by not properly supplying the refugees  in the Super Dome or by not nationalizing the Guard quickly enough to hold down the looting. He was POTUS and the buck stops at the top. Many people here in Pensacola were angry with Obama for not getting disaster relief funds flowing quickly enough after our little floods, but they're the same people who said Bush could do nothing to help after Katrina so he was blameless.
Like I said, we just disagree on this one.

There is a way to request something OR order something.. Your city does NOT ask the president for aid without going thru YOUR state politicians.. Then, the STATE requests the help from the president.. The National Guard is under control of the Governor of the particular state, and the governor is the one that sends the National Guard who may ASK for help from the GOVERNORS of other states, then, the President is asked by the GOVERNOR for federal police or military aid.. The president did NOT keep the trucks full of food, clothing,m ice, and other things from entering Louisiana.. The governor is the ONLY one that ordered blocking the highways at the borders and air space..

Not sufficient busses?  C'mon.  I guess if you DON'T USE THEM, there won't be enough.  Those school busses just sat there and flooded and there were a LOT of 'em.  

I just don't buy the story that there weren't enough busses.  That's bunk.

EDIT: Tim Russert pressed Nagin on this and Nagin swore that he didn't have enough drivers. Hmmmmm. All those busses and no one to drive them. Why do they have them then?

Eric wrote:

Not sufficient busses?  C'mon.  I guess if you DON'T USE THEM, there won't be enough.  Those school busses just sat there and flooded and there were a LOT of 'em.  

I just don't buy the story that there weren't enough busses.  That's bunk.

EDIT:  Tim Russert pressed Nagin on this and Nagin swore that he didn't have enough drivers.  Hmmmmm.   All those busses and no one to drive them.  Why do they have them then?

Journalism MISSES Tim Russert!... He went after those that needed it no matter the party affiliation...