Toyota Prius PHEV stuff for Eric

I first heard about the plug-in version of the Prius before I ever owned a conventional Prius.
And before the plug-in version was even being sold in the U.S.
I had made up my mind that I had to have one when it did become available to the U.S. market.
But then when it finally did come to the U.S. in 2012,  it was made available only to dealers
in 15 states,  all in the north and west.  The closest dealers to us here were a thousand miles away.
We were told at the time,  that dealers in the remainder of the country would be selling
it a year later in 2013.  But that never materialized.  
Now we're being told it will go nationwide this year.  

Toyota has discounted the price for the 2014 model by $2000,  now putting the MSRP at $29,990
And if your tax situation can take advantage of it,  buying a new Prius PEHV will give you a $2,500 tax credit.

So I am again getting the bug.  I want to own a PHEV bad.  I want to drive on electric bad.  

But,  we need to take a practical look at this.

The MSRP on the conventional 2014 Prius is $24,200.  So we have to pay $5 grand more for the PHEV version.
And what does that additional five grand get us.  Well it gets us 11 miles on electric.  And that's under ideal circumstances.  But since we don't live in Hawaii or California,  we have hot summers in the south.
And what the car manufacturers NEVER report to prospective buyers,  is the electric range they specify is with the A/C switched off.  The A/C is electric and powered by the vehicle's traction battery too.  And when it's switched on,  it eats up battery and reduces the car's electric range.  
So that 11 mile range actually becomes a lot less than 11 miles.

I would love to own one,  but the very limited range on electric just does not justify the higher price to me.
I'm getting close to replacing my 2007 conventional Prius.  But I will probably go with another conventional Prius until such time PHEV's have become more practical.

Eric,  since you indicated to me that you are considering the purchase of a Prius PHEV,  what are you thoughts on this?

Still looking at one.  Why are you wanting to replace your Prius?  It certainly ain't worn out.

We're looking at traveling after Christine retires and we figured that something that gets excellent mileage would be a smart thing to do.

Let's face it, Bob. Most of our trips are short jaunts to the store. Running on electric for the short hops is cost-effective.

What is the estimated annual cost to your electric bill? I know it costs me about $80 a month to keep the battery, tranny & oil pan heaters on my pickup plugged in.

Ricey, I don't know exactly, but there isn't much savings unless you keep the vehicle for a long time to recoup the higher purchase costs. As an example of how long we keep vehicles, Christine's current vehicle, a Honda CRV, has 199,000 miles and my Honda Civic Si has 170,000 miles. We got them both new and they both still run like tops. We're probably going to get another 40-50,000 miles, at least, out of both before we get another vehicle.

That's sorta what I figured, but having worked in renewables as long as I did, I would be interested to know what the estimate is. That's important sheet, mainerd!

Related, while working on my 1997 extra cab 4WD Tacoma in my cousin's heated shop, he and I were both pretty surprised to find that it is 1000 lbs heavier than his 3/4-ton 4WD 2007 Chevy crew cab. He also gets much better mileage than I do. Aside from obvious advances in technology, I attribute the differentials to the fact that Chevy used aluminum in the block and tranny housings and mine is steel. Eric, the odometer on my "Taco" just quit at 207k, but she runs like a top, too . I "feed" her better (fluids) than I do myself, and I put nothing put the very best of parts on her... no China Napa bullshit. Ever, ever, ever. Ever. Did I say "ever"? lol

Another "related," Ford is rolling out the 2015 1/2 ton with an aluminum body. I've read-up on all the articles I can find on this and I cannot find a single article that addresses my primary concern, which is the pickup's safety rating (would like to see comparison to previous year/s). I cannot find any reference to the 2015 1/2-ton's safety rating. That said, Ford's CEO's past life was in aerospace, so I have to assume (???) that he knows a thing or three about aluminum. 

Okay, did not mean to hijack. Sowwy!

To calculate the cost of driving on electric,  you need to know two things.  The vehicles energy consumption rate,  and the cost per kWh of electricity where you're located.

The Prius PHEV consumes 32.2 kWh per 100 miles.
And the Gulf Power rate is about 10 cents per kWh (although they just announced an upcoming increase).
To get the cost of driving 100 miles on electric,  you multiply one by the other.  And that tells
you it costs $3.22 per hundred miles or 3.2 cents per mile.

To compare that to the cost of driving on gasoline,  the Prius PHEV gets about 50 mpg in gas mode.
With gas at $3.40 per gallon,  it will cost $6.80 to go 100 miles or 6.8 cents per mile.

So with the current cost of gas and grid electricity in our area,  it costs about twice as much per mile when driving on gas than when driving on electric.

The electric range of the Prius PHEV is 11 miles.  But that's with the A/C switched off.  By googling,  I just discovered that,  on average,  an electric vehicle will lose about 16% of it's range with the A/C switched on.   So that 11 miles then becomes closer to 9 miles.  But since we don't use the A/C year round,  we can probably estimate the year round range to be about 10 miles.

So it all comes down to the particular motorist's driving routine.  What portion of driving will you be doing in electric mode?
I am probably the best candidate for buying this car.  Why?  Because most of my daily trips are all under 10 miles round trip.  And if I spring for a 240 volt charger,  which will charge the car in 1.5 hours (compared to 3-4 hrs at 115 volts),  then I will be able to recharge at home between several driving trips per day.  

I drive about 10,000 miles per year.  If 5000 of those miles are driving on electric,  then it will cost me $160.  And the 5000 mile I'm driving on gas,  will cost me $340.  
For a total annual energy cost of $500.
The same annual cost of driving a conventional Prius (getting 50 mpg) would be $680.

So,  even though my driving routine is ideal for owning this car,  even I would only save $180 per year compared to driving a conventional Prius.  A driver with a typical driving routine would save less,  and many would save a lot less.
And I would have to pay about $5000 more for the PHEV version of the car than for the conventional version.  It would take me 31 years to recoup that difference in initial purchase price.

Of course that's assuming the gas continues to cost $3.40/gal.  If the price of gas increases then I would see a little more savings.  But it's still far from being a cost-effective choice.

But money is not the ONLY consideration for owning this car.  Some (including me) have a weird obsession with wanting to drive a car on electricity.  I like the idea of giving less money to the oil companies and Saudis (especially since I own electric utility stock LOL).  And then there is the geek factor (which also includes me) which is the fun of owning the cutting edge of driving technology.

But there is one last thing to consider.  The traction battery in the PHEV version is a lot more expensive to replace than the battery in the conventional Prius.  So if you're planning to drive the car enough miles to need a battery replacement,  that battery replacement is going to cost you a lot more.

Since I am on the Gulf Power Energy Select program, I can get power as low as 7.9 cents per kWh. We also drive a LOT more than 10k per year. With Christine's car alone, we drive 28k per year.

Of course, with that many extended highway miles, it's pretty damn obvious that it wouldn't all be on electric alone. But we would maximize the usage of the battery charge. Christine's office also has charging stations.

I look forward to the day when you can pull into parking lots and park at induction charging stations which don't require you to attach a plug to your car.  A transponder in your car would handle payment details just like those fast lanes at toll plazas.

One thing is certain. Gasoline isn't going to get cheaper.

Have you considered a Chevy Volt as an option?  They've dropped the price on those to a
point that it's now cost competitive with the Prius PHEV when you consider the 35 mile electric range.
Also,  the purchase of a new Volt will give you a $7500 tax credit as opposed to $2500 on a
Prius PHEV.

I've been monitoring the availability and price of used Volts.  Here's one with only 3400 miles on
it and the asking is only $21,543.

Sorry, Bob. I tried to edit the link and screwed it up. Eric

MOTOR TREND: Volt vs Prius PHEV

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1302_2012_chevrolet_volt_vs_toyota_prius_plug_in/

That cars.com link screwed up the layout of the page, but we'll leave it for now.

You would do better with the Volt. Because of my high-mileage driving, the Prius would be the better choice. The Prius is noisier (boo - hiss), but the cargo area is more to my liking... twice that of the Volt.

Eric wrote:

That cars.com link screwed up the layout of the page, but we'll leave it for now.

I tried to turn that link into a tinyurl.

But when I go to tinyurl.com, this is what I get.

Eric wrote:

cargo area

That's a big factor for me too. And why the Volt is not an option for me either.

I'm actually considering the Prius V model for my next car for that reason. It has as much cargo area
as many SUV's. Almost as much as a short wheelbase minivan. But still gets 44/40 mpg.

You still haven't said why you are getting rid of your current Prius, Bob. I thought it had low miles.

Drive that thing into the ground bob... it's not like your flipping houses.

My Prius has 66k miles on it.  And I love it more than any car I've ever owned.
But I keep dreaming about plugging a car into an electrical outlet (I'm just goofy obsessed with wanting to do it for some reason).  Probably not tomorrow or next week or next month.  But if I wait too long,  I may die before I ever get the chance.

But they don't make the Prius V as a plug-in, do they?

Ricey wrote:

Another "related," Ford is rolling out the 2015 1/2 ton with an aluminum body. I've read-up on all the articles I can find on this and I cannot find a single article that addresses my primary concern, which is the pickup's safety rating (would like to see comparison to previous year/s). I cannot find any reference to the 2015 1/2-ton's safety rating. That said, Ford's CEO's past life was in aerospace, so I have to assume (???) that he knows a thing or three about aluminum.

I read this a while back. Not too complimentary about Aluminum. http://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2014/01/13/dont-put-aluminum-in-my-f-150/

Eric wrote:

But they don't make the Prius V as a plug-in, do they?

Not now. But they probably will before long.

Okay maybe this is a good compromise for me. Maybe if I keep the car and get one of these instead.
That should satisfy my geek genes for a little longer. And for a lot less money. lol

[url= http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=quadcopter&sprefix=quadco%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aquadcopter ] http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=quadcopter&sprefix=quadco%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aquadcopter [/url]

p.s. you said you made it to Gallery Night. Were you there when that quadcopter with the green and red lights was flying up and down Palafox? Damn was that ever cool. Everybody turned their eyes to the sky to look at it.

Yeah, we saw it.

And yes, everybody had their eyes trained skyward like Pavlov's dogs.

It would be neat to have one with a Go-Pro camera aboard.

You better buy 3-4 extra batteries, Bob.

Edit: You could get one of those at Gallery Night and team up with a pick-pocket and do a brisk business, lol.

Bob, you could always make a pickup out of your Prius...

Eric wrote:

Ricey wrote:

Another "related," Ford is rolling out the 2015 1/2 ton with an aluminum body. I've read-up on all the articles I can find on this and I cannot find a single article that addresses my primary concern, which is the pickup's safety rating (would like to see comparison to previous year/s). I cannot find any reference to the 2015 1/2-ton's safety rating. That said, Ford's CEO's past life was in aerospace, so I have to assume (???) that he knows a thing or three about aluminum.

I read this a while back.  Not too complimentary about Aluminum. http://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2014/01/13/dont-put-aluminum-in-my-f-150/

I was concerned about repair costs because of the rarity of finding guys with certs to work with aluminum but had not considered mixing gasses and the offset to insurance. Those are good points. 

Bob, the math is a lot more favorable than I thought it might be for the electric Prius (electric is about twice as expensive up here), but I completely & totally get that it is not just about the math. I would love to be not giving my money to big oil and the Saudis, too.

Eric wrote:

Bob, you could always make a pickup out of your Prius...

Now that is really creative. A Prius pickup. Whodathunkit. lol

Here's a photo of it from the other side.  Man he sure didn't care about a wrinkled body on it did he. Looks like he used a can opener to make it. lol