Gun Control?

Apparently someone forgot to tell the thugs in Chicago about gun control laws there.

4 Dead, 24 Wounded in Weekend Chicago Violence

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/4-dead-24-wounded-weekend-chicago-violence-n96851

nochain wrote:

Apparently someone forgot to tell the thugs in Chicago about gun control laws there.

4 Dead, 24 Wounded in Weekend Chicago Violence

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/4-dead-24-wounded-weekend-chicago-violence-n96851

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Look up the stats online....in the articles they'll tell you the percentages that murders are down and murders are at their lowest since '65..'58 (2013-2012) etc., but you have to dig through several articles to get the numbers...

2012....500

2013....415

Through April 27, 2014.....100

These are success rates? Good job Mayor Emanuel and Police Superintendent....You are correct the 'thugs' didn't get the memo about gun control laws...

The anti-gun folks will whine harder for MORE gun control laws...

... laws that can't be enforced.

Eric wrote:

The anti-gun folks will whine harder for MORE gun control laws...

... laws that can't be enforced.

Exactly. The burden of more and more controls always falls on already law abiding citizens. I went through the process (and expense) to get my concealed weapons permit but the ones that folks have to worry about - criminals - don't worry about "laws".

nochain wrote:

Eric wrote:

The anti-gun folks will whine harder for MORE gun control laws...

... laws that can't be enforced.

Exactly. The burden of more and more controls always falls on already law abiding citizens. I went through the process (and expense) to get my concealed weapons permit but the ones that folks have to worry about - criminals - don't worry about "laws".

Yessir!....These laws do nothing but make law abiding citizens criminals for protecting themselves and their families...With some of the recent knife attacks wonder if there will be a call for knife control...

mediawatcher wrote:

nochain wrote:

Eric wrote:

The anti-gun folks will whine harder for MORE gun control laws...

... laws that can't be enforced.

Exactly. The burden of more and more controls always falls on already law abiding citizens. I went through the process (and expense) to get my concealed weapons permit but the ones that folks have to worry about - criminals - don't worry about "laws".

    Yessir!....These laws do nothing but make law abiding citizens criminals for protecting themselves and their families...With some of the recent knife attacks wonder if there will be a call for knife control...

Well, if gun control means nothing then Americans are simply the most angry, violent, insane people on the planet due to our genetics. Because in Canada and Ireland and many countries who have stricter gun controls than we do, there is much less killing going on.
So either admit we in America are an inferior group of people who have virtually no self control compared to the Canadians and even the Irish (think of that!) or claim we're all alike and  that gun controls do work to control some of the violent crimes in a country.

It really does have to be one or the other.

I admit it, Americans have no self control.

As long as gangs prey on young people in the inner cities... kids that live at or below the poverty level, we will continue to have gun violence.

I'm shootin' from the hip here, but I believe that gangs are the problem. Gangs offer a sense of belonging and camaraderie to disadvantaged youths. (Not to mention the promise of a gangsta money bath)

Otter wrote:

mediawatcher wrote:

nochain wrote:

Eric wrote:

The anti-gun folks will whine harder for MORE gun control laws...

... laws that can't be enforced.

Exactly. The burden of more and more controls always falls on already law abiding citizens. I went through the process (and expense) to get my concealed weapons permit but the ones that folks have to worry about - criminals - don't worry about "laws".

    Yessir!....These laws do nothing but make law abiding citizens criminals for protecting themselves and their families...With some of the recent knife attacks wonder if there will be a call for knife control...

Well, if gun control means nothing then Americans are simply the most angry, violent, insane people on the planet due to our genetics. Because in Canada and Ireland and many countries who have stricter gun controls than we do, there is much less killing going on.
So either admit we in America are an inferior group of people who have virtually no self control compared to the Canadians and even the Irish (think of that!) or claim we're all alike and  that gun controls do work to control some of the violent crimes in a country.

It really does have to be one or the other.

No it means that the laws are directed towards law abiding citizens that do follow the laws and the thugs don't follow the laws...Instead of going after the law abiders how about the criminal element...The point is being missed that Chicago has some of the toughest...strictest gun laws and look at the stats...Eventually someone is going to have to address the problem of the thugs...

mediawatcher wrote:

No it means that the laws are directed towards law abiding citizens that do follow the laws and the thugs don't follow the laws...Instead of going after the law abiders how about the criminal element...The point is being missed that Chicago has some of the toughest...strictest gun laws and look at the stats...Eventually someone is going to have to address the problem of the thugs...

I agree.  One of the biggest funding agents of gangs is sales of drugs.  Make drugs legal but regulate the hell out it (like alcohol is regulated), and treat those addicted to drugs like crack, heroin, and cocaine as the addicts that they are, and you eliminate a major source of funding for the gangs.

It won't eliminate all gang funding.  There'll always be prostitution, robbery, extortion, etc., but those aren't funding sources that have willing customers like illegal drugs do.  (Okay, the prostitution does, I admit)  Drug users seek out the sellers and make it easy for gangs to fund their activities.

WAIT A MINUTE, some will say.  I also have concerns about legalization, but in Portugal, a country with a high percentage of drug users, legalization and treating users as addicts and not criminals, some interesting things have happened.  Here is a portion of an article in Time  (The Time article):

Quote :

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Compared to the European Union and the U.S., Portugal's drug use numbers are impressive. Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.

The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.

Our War on Drugs is doing such a great job (yeah, right).  Perhaps it is time to consider alternatives to throwing good money after bad and ruining thousands of lives by making criminals out of drug users.  The cartels in other countries will see a crunch if their funding goes away, too.

Eric wrote:

mediawatcher wrote:

No it means that the laws are directed towards law abiding citizens that do follow the laws and the thugs don't follow the laws...Instead of going after the law abiders how about the criminal element...The point is being missed that Chicago has some of the toughest...strictest gun laws and look at the stats...Eventually someone is going to have to address the problem of the thugs...

I agree.  One of the biggest funding agents of gangs is sales of drugs.  Make drugs legal but regulate the hell out it (like alcohol is regulated), and treat those addicted to drugs like crack, heroin, and cocaine as the addicts that they are, and you eliminate a major source of funding for the gangs.

It won't eliminate all gang funding.  There'll always be prostitution, robbery, extortion, etc., but those aren't funding sources that have willing customers like illegal drugs do.  (Okay, the prostitution does, I admit)  Drug users seek out the sellers and make it easy for gangs to fund their activities.

WAIT A MINUTE, some will say.  I also have concerns about legalization, but in Portugal, a country with a high percentage of drug users, legalization and treating users as addicts and not criminals, some interesting things have happened.  Here is a portion of an article in Time  (The Time article):

Quote :

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Compared to the European Union and the U.S., Portugal's drug use numbers are impressive. Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.

The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.

Our War on Drugs is doing such a great job (yeah, right).  Perhaps it is time to consider alternatives to throwing good money after bad and ruining thousands of lives by making criminals out of drug users.  The cartels in other countries will see a crunch if their funding goes away, too.

Certainly am not going to even attempt to defend the war on drugs...perhaps it may have been a good idea but it ended up targeting the wrong people and costing....probably can't even estimate the cost...Couldn't agree more that a 'war' should be declared on the gangs and their drug businesses...and make no mistake...it would be a war!.. With all the tough talk and labels...these thugs are real domestic terrorists...

The gun and drug laws are about as effective as the DUI laws.. As long as there are liberal judges, the  taxpayers keep spending fortunes for minimum slap on the hand penalties UNLESS the victim happens to be a politicians relative..  Remember Mary Jo Kopechne, killed by a drunken Ted Kennedy, with the result of being re-elected to the senate for years and years..  If YOU or I was the driver, where would we be??  Others get away with similar crimes, but the average taxpayer still pays a fortune because of liberal judges..  Let the minor drug offenders out of jail and lock up the criminals that cause injuries or deaths by breaking the gun, alcohol, and drug laws instead of slapping their hands and telling them not to do it again..

Jake92 wrote:

The gun and drug laws are about as effective as the DUI laws.. As long as there are liberal judges, the  taxpayers keep spending fortunes for minimum slap on the hand penalties UNLESS the victim happens to be a politicians relative..  Remember Mary Jo Kopechne, killed by a drunken Ted Kennedy, with the result of being re-elected to the senate for years and years..  If YOU or I was the driver, where would we be??  Others get away with similar crimes, but the average taxpayer still pays a fortune because of liberal judges..  Let the minor drug offenders out of jail and lock up the criminals that cause injuries or deaths by breaking the gun, alcohol, and drug laws instead of slapping their hands and telling them not to do it again..

People in Massachusetts liked the Kennedys. What can you say? They reelected him. I felt like he should have at least done some time for failure to report her drowning when it happened. Of course he was as drunk as a skunk and might not even have known what was going on that night.
But it wouldn't surprise me if people down here reelected people who have been in some shady situations too. I think Joe Scarborough could have stayed in Congress if he wanted to. And if you have a long enough history in Pensacola, you'd know the story I'm talking about. It's not just people in Massachusetts who can forgive a candidate if they agree with his politics.
As for the gun control thing, I don't think it's all because of gangs or all because of liberal judges that it wouldn't work here. It really has not even been tried in a serious manner here because of the NRA and so many lobbyists that are against it. I think guns should be licensed and owners background checked. If they are ever arrested for a violent crime including domestic violence, take the guns away.  And hunting guns or small caliber handguns for protection are fine, but the variety of insanely powerful weapons we have out there on the streets  makes no sense at all in a civilized society. The excuse that we might have to defend ourselves against our government is a crock. You aren't going to stop a tank with a 45. It just ain't going to happen.
You honestly can't say it wouldn't work because we've never tried it. It does work in many countries around the world and like I said, unless we are less sane than they are, I can't see any reason it could not work here.

I actually think the answer is that we ARE less sane than they are though, so I'm not sure if we can ever have a really civilized society here in the US.

I think the biggest problem is the judges who give the slap on the hand "awards" to the criminals allowing them to go do another crime on the way home from court.. I wish I had $20 million so I could built houses next door to every judge in the county and allow the prisoners to stay there FREE for 3 months after early release or probation, no matter what the crime.. Imagine a judge releasing a child molester early knowing his wife and daughters will have a convicted child molester living next door to him or a 5 time drunk driver living next door to him and his little grammar school age children..

End the war on drugs and the jails will gain the capacity to house child molesters and people that are a potential danger to society.

The jails in the U.S. are overflowing... the highest percentage of population in jails of any other country... and costs are killing us.  Treat drug addiction instead of making it a crime and our jails will suddenly have capacity.

I agree 100%, but the JUDGES are the ones filling the prisons and jails with drug offenders that got caught with a $10 baggie of pot..

Otter wrote:

mediawatcher wrote:

nochain wrote:

Eric wrote:

The anti-gun folks will whine harder for MORE gun control laws...

... laws that can't be enforced.

Exactly. The burden of more and more controls always falls on already law abiding citizens. I went through the process (and expense) to get my concealed weapons permit but the ones that folks have to worry about - criminals - don't worry about "laws".

    Yessir!....These laws do nothing but make law abiding citizens criminals for protecting themselves and their families...With some of the recent knife attacks wonder if there will be a call for knife control...

Well, if gun control means nothing then Americans are simply the most angry, violent, insane people on the planet due to our genetics. Because in Canada and Ireland and many countries who have stricter gun controls than we do, there is much less killing going on.
So either admit we in America are an inferior group of people who have virtually no self control compared to the Canadians and even the Irish (think of that!) or claim we're all alike and  that gun controls do work to control some of the violent crimes in a country.

It really does have to be one or the other.

More violent per capita?