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  Violence in Ukraine worsens....

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mediawatcher

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PostSubject: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:28 am

The cowh says there will be consequences....is this another 'red line' like Syria?...Seems like Ole'Vlad is trying to put the USSR back together and probably doesn't care about the threat of consequences...Aside from sanctions and the closing of diplomatic ties don't know what else is going to be done...
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:50 pm

mediawatcher wrote:
   The cowh says there will be consequences....is this another 'red line' like Syria?...Seems like Ole'Vlad is trying to put the USSR back together and probably doesn't care about the threat of consequences...Aside from sanctions and the closing of diplomatic ties don't know what else is going to be done...

BHO doesn't have a viable foreign policy in any region of the world. World leaders could care less what he says.....
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:05 pm

There are going to be "consequences"? What's he gonna do, bomb them?? Why does the US feel it is imperative to get involved in every-damn-body's affairs? We should not be making this our problem. We have plenty of our own problems that need addressed right here at home!

Below is a great article about the background of what's going on in the Ukraine. 

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/21/there-are-two-competing-stories-about-whats-happening-in-ukraine-theyre-both-right/

Coincidentally, I watched Black Hawk Down again last night.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:55 pm

riceme wrote:
There are going to be "consequences"? What's he gonna do, bomb them?? Why does the US feel it is imperative to get involved in every-damn-body's affairs? We should not be making this our problem. We have plenty of our own problems that need addressed right here at home!

Below is a great article about the background of what's going on in the Ukraine. 

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/21/there-are-two-competing-stories-about-whats-happening-in-ukraine-theyre-both-right/

Coincidentally, I watched Black Hawk Down again last night.

     


Last edited by mediawatcher on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:20 pm

mediawatcher wrote:
riceme wrote:
There are going to be "consequences"? What's he gonna do, bomb them?? Why does the US feel it is imperative to get involved in every-damn-body's affairs? We should not be making this our problem. We have plenty of our own problems that need addressed right here at home!

Below is a great article about the background of what's going on in the Ukraine. 

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/21/there-are-two-competing-stories-about-whats-happening-in-ukraine-theyre-both-right/

Coincidentally, I watched Black Hawk Down again last night.

     That's exactly the question....what 'consequences'?....Looks like there's not too much concern over the consequences rhetoric...Like in the Blues Brothers...Putin wants to put the band back together...and he knows the right person is in the White House to do so...


So, what is your answer?  It's not our business. We can't and shouldn't go attack the Ruskies over this. If Putin can put the band back together, he'll put it together no matter who our president is, unless we have some fool in there who wants to risk nuclear warfare.

Romney couldn't do anything either. And I would hope he wouldn't try.

We didn't defeat the Russians, FYI. They killed their economy off by wasting a billion or so (seemingly)years in Afghanistan, just like we are doing. Saint Ronald didn't have a thing in the world to do with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:01 am

Otter wrote:
mediawatcher wrote:
riceme wrote:
There are going to be "consequences"? What's he gonna do, bomb them?? Why does the US feel it is imperative to get involved in every-damn-body's affairs? We should not be making this our problem. We have plenty of our own problems that need addressed right here at home!

Below is a great article about the background of what's going on in the Ukraine. 

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/21/there-are-two-competing-stories-about-whats-happening-in-ukraine-theyre-both-right/

Coincidentally, I watched Black Hawk Down again last night.

     That's exactly the question....what 'consequences'?....Looks like there's not too much concern over the consequences rhetoric...Like in the Blues Brothers...Putin wants to put the band back together...and he knows the right person is in the White House to do so...


So, what is your answer?  It's not our business. We can't and shouldn't go attack the Ruskies over this. If Putin can put the band back together, he'll put it together no matter who our president is, unless we have some fool in there who wants to risk nuclear warfare.

Romney couldn't do anything either. And I would hope he wouldn't try.

We didn't defeat the Russians, FYI. They killed their economy off by wasting a billion or so (seemingly)years in Afghanistan, just like we are doing. Saint Ronald didn't have a thing in the world to do with it.

   


Last edited by mediawatcher on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:10 pm

Otter wrote:
mediawatcher wrote:
riceme wrote:
There are going to be "consequences"? What's he gonna do, bomb them?? Why does the US feel it is imperative to get involved in every-damn-body's affairs? We should not be making this our problem. We have plenty of our own problems that need addressed right here at home!

Below is a great article about the background of what's going on in the Ukraine. 

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/21/there-are-two-competing-stories-about-whats-happening-in-ukraine-theyre-both-right/

Coincidentally, I watched Black Hawk Down again last night.

     That's exactly the question....what 'consequences'?....Looks like there's not too much concern over the consequences rhetoric...Like in the Blues Brothers...Putin wants to put the band back together...and he knows the right person is in the White House to do so...


So, what is your answer?  It's not our business. We can't and shouldn't go attack the Ruskies over this. If Putin can put the band back together, he'll put it together no matter who our president is, unless we have some fool in there who wants to risk nuclear warfare.

Romney couldn't do anything either. And I would hope he wouldn't try.

We didn't defeat the Russians, FYI. They killed their economy off by wasting a billion or so (seemingly)years in Afghanistan, just like we are doing. Saint Ronald didn't have a thing in the world to do with it.

Saying "Romney" couldn't do anything is like saying Aunt Matilda is not capable of doing anything - as I recall Romney is not and has never been in a position to shape national policy. The Soviets didn't kill their economy with Afghanistan - their role was much smaller than ours has been, they spent a small fraction of their GDP there. The Soviet collapse occurred because of a multitude of factors - a corrupt and stagnant economy, rising expectations as a result of Glasnost, a failed effort to keep up with the U.S. in military and space technology, even the sheer size of the Soviet Union became problematic from a military aspect - if we needed 10 radars they needed 1,000 due to the sheer size of the union. They couldn't afford to keep up and the natives were getting restless. The U.S. participated in their destruction simply by being more technologically advanced while allowing citizens freedoms unheard in the USSR.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:56 pm


As many as 50,000 Russians are protesting in Moscow about Russia's actions in Ukraine.



In a potentially explosive development, Ukrainian officials are now accusing Russia of dispatching troops onto the Ukrainian mainland. This would mark the first presence of troops outside the Crimean peninsula.

Ukraine’s foreign ministry issued a protest against the troop landing in the Kherson region near Crimea, and demanded an immediate withdrawal. The ministry said about 80 troops had landed along with four helicopter gunships and three armored vehicles. It said Ukraine “reserves the right to use all necessary measures to stop the military invasion by Russia.”

The Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs added that "Ukraine reserves the right to use all necessary measures to stop the military invasion by Russia."

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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:15 pm

I'm pretty sure Romney isn't president, but what I was saying was that even if he had been elected instead of Obama, there would still be nothing to be done about the situation.

Obama and Kerry need to quit saber rattling and attempting to escalate a crisis that isn't either a real crisis or our business. If the Russians in the Crimea vote to rejoin Russia (and that's the prediction)then we should stay the heck out of it.

I don't think the situation has anything to do with whether Obama is a weak president or a strong one, and Fox News needs to quit spreading that propaganda.

The simple truth is that not every country on this planet has to be a democracy with a dog- eat- dog free enterprise system like our own.

We need to quit trying to impose our values on other countries. It ain't our business.
I agree with both members of the Paul family on that issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:25 pm

Otter wrote:
I'm pretty sure Romney isn't president, but what I was saying was that even if he had been elected instead of Obama, there would still be nothing to be done about the situation.

Obama and Kerry need to quit saber rattling and attempting to escalate a crisis that isn't either a real crisis or our business. If the Russians in the Crimea vote to rejoin Russia (and that's the prediction)then we should stay the heck out of it.

I don't think the situation has anything to do with whether Obama is a weak president or a strong one, and Fox News needs to quit spreading that propaganda.

The simple truth is that not every country on this planet has to be a democracy with a dog- eat- dog free enterprise system like our own.

We need to quit trying to impose our values on other countries. It ain't our business.
I agree with both members of the Paul family on that issue.

FOX News isn't the only news organization questioning the cowh as to whether he is seen as 'weak or strong'. There are democrats that worked for former presidents including Carter and Clinton that are questioning this administration. This certainly isn't the first time where this questioning of an administration has been discussed and it won't be the last. FOX News (or any other media outlets) didn't make this administration issue red lines and consequences statements so it's not really fair to blame them for reporting what was said.

I've not read anyone here suggesting or wanting military used in the Ukraine and that would be a huge mistake. Once again though it's the US standing alone because our allies have a close relationship with Russia and their oil shipments and if those that are effected immediately don't care or want to upset Vlad then guess they aren't going to join in with sanctions.

Without any or much support in the world community you are correct the rhetoric about deadlines etc., are meaningless.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:47 pm

As far as some people are concerned, no matter what the problem is, it's the republicans fault... Others feel everything is the Democrats fault.  They are BOTH inanimate political parties putting out whatever they want the people to believe for a vote..  WHY are ILLEGAL aliens NOT being arrested and thrown in jail until they can be deported??  WHY are they allowed to go to coillege on govt backed student loans that are never repaid after they move back to their own country?  Don't say they aren't without PROOF that the loans are paid.. WHAT politicians are pushing for rights for ILLEGAL aliens??
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:02 am

Jake92 wrote:
As far as some people are concerned, no matter what the problem is, it's the republicans fault... Others feel everything is the Democrats fault.  They are BOTH inanimate political parties putting out whatever they want the people to believe for a vote..  WHY are ILLEGAL aliens NOT being arrested and thrown in jail until they can be deported??  WHY are they allowed to go to coillege on govt backed student loans that are never repaid after they move back to their own country?  Don't say they aren't without PROOF that the loans are paid..  WHAT politicians are pushing for rights for ILLEGAL aliens??

Somewhat agree....in the case of healthcare it's on the cowh and the democrats they drove the bus and rammed it through with little or no concern of the consequences. The immigration problem you are spot on---this is problem for decades and BOTH parties have done nothing to remedy the situation and it's all because of politics and which party can get the votes. Your questions are valid and the politicians that are not upholding their Constitutional Duties should be pointed out, questioned, and voted out of office but that would take voters that actually would take the time to educate themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:10 pm

Just vote ALL of them out and start over with prosecutions of the ones breaking the immigration laws for the ones not voted out..... The bottom line is the elected officials are NOT upholding their oaths and are breaking many many laws including the immigration laws. Prosecute the hell out of them and they will start following the laws.. Law #1 : They are required to follow EVERY law the common citizen has to folloow.. They should be on Social Security for their retirement, just like the rest of us and should also have to be under the same exact health program the common citizen is..
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:48 am

Jake92 wrote:
Just vote ALL of them out and start over with prosecutions of the ones breaking the immigration laws for the ones not voted out.....  The bottom line is the elected officials are NOT upholding their oaths and are breaking many many laws including the immigration laws.  Prosecute the hell out of them and they will start following the laws..  Law #1 : They are required to follow EVERY law the common citizen has to folloow..  They should be on Social Security for their retirement, just like the rest of us and should also have to be under the same exact health program the common citizen is..

 cheers cheers cheers cheers  The elections are coming up!
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:44 pm











































It amazes me after all these years that anyone wouldn't realize that Fox is nothing but the propaganda dispenser for the Republican party.  No, I haven't seen a lot of other networks saying the president hasn't acted strongly enough in this situation. The goading from the right and the constant questioning of his strength is bound to have some effect on the POTUS, even if he does not understand it himself.
He doesn't need people like McCain interfering in the situation, and he doesn't need people prodding him to stand up to the Russians when this is a matter that has been settled by a democratic vote of the people of Crimea.

Russia is not and never was as EVIL a country as our propaganda told us, and neither are we as Good a nation as our propaganda has always taught us.
I'm not so sure we are not the most brainwashed country on the planet ourselves.
I think that's probably more the truth than anything else.

Remember, the only good Indian is a dead Indian and only the South is racist.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:02 pm

I imagine you honestly believe everything ESPN and the other networks tell you.. Open your own eyes and see things for yourself in the real world, NOT the TV news. Find me 10 real living people on THIS site that want illegal aliens to get healthcare benefits at the cost of cutting healthcare for wounded veterans... Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and other congress members are NOT members of this site as far as I know..

You are VERY racist if you believe the south is the only racist part of the country and what the hell brought Indians into the conversation???
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:06 am

Jake92 wrote:
I imagine you honestly believe everything ESPN and the other networks tell you..  Open your own eyes and see things for yourself in the real world, NOT the TV news.  Find me 10 real living people on THIS site that want illegal aliens to get healthcare benefits at the cost of cutting healthcare for wounded veterans...  Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and other congress members are NOT members of this site as far as I know..

You are VERY racist if you believe the south is the only racist part of the country and what the hell brought Indians into the conversation???

Some of the most violent busing protests in the 70's were not in the south. Go back in history and recall the protests/violence in Boston for example. It has become far too easy and acceptable to believe that only the South has racists. Those that believe such nonesense should look in the mirror prior to throwing the race card around. While calling out the South those making the allegations have no problem with painting all in the South a certain way which as was pointed out is racist in and of itself.

Great point about healthcare benefits for 'illegals' and neglecting veterans that are legal and served this nation. Can't imagine the argument that could be made to defend such a horrible idea let alone the legality of doing so. Ask the taxpayers in a straight up or down vote whether to support entitlements to 'illegals' over any Americans.

To blame 'goading' from the right for the mistakes made by this administration is another attempt to deflect from the lack of leadership of the cowh and shift the blame elsewhere. It is/was Bush's fault...republicans...tea party...FOX News...right wingers etc.,....when will it be time that the cowh and his administration is held responsible and accountable?
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:51 am

Otter wrote:

It amazes me after all these years that anyone wouldn't realize that Fox is nothing but the propaganda dispenser for the Republican party.  No, I haven't seen a lot of other networks saying the president hasn't acted strongly enough in this situation. The goading from the right and the constant questioning of his strength is bound to have some effect on the POTUS, even if he does not understand it himself.
He doesn't need people like McCain interfering in the situation, and he doesn't need people prodding him to stand up to the Russians when this is a matter that has been settled by a democratic vote of the people of Crimea.

Russia is not and never was as EVIL a country as our propaganda told us, and neither are we as Good a nation as our propaganda has always taught us.
I'm not so sure we are not the most brainwashed country on the planet ourselves.
I think that's probably more the truth than anything else.

Remember, the only good Indian is a dead Indian and only the South is racist.

Fox = Repub propaganda machine? OK.
MSNBC = Liberal (Dem) propaganda machine? OK (they were so biased in 2008 they were known as BHOs campaign headquarters)
HUFFPO = Liberal (Dem) propaganda machine? OK
Time Magazine = Liberal (Dem) propaganda machine? OK
NY Times = Liberal (Dem) propaganda machine? OK
ABC News = Liberal (Dem) propaganda machine? OK
NBC News = Liberal (Dem) propaganda machine? OK
NPR = Liberal (Dem) propaganda machine? OK
USA Today = Liberal (Dem) propaganda machine? OK
CNN = Liberal (Dem) propaganda machine? OK

Fox would probably be pleased to know you hold them in such high regard.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:00 am

Putin knows how weak BHO is which is why he wasn't concerned about annexing Crimea and is laughing about BHOs "sanctions"....

"Putin also watched the US over both Libya and Syria. Obama barely supported Nato’s actions against Tripoli and his 'red-line’ over the use of chemical weapons was nothing but hot air."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10669826/Ukraine-Putins-Crimea-aim-is-to-make-the-West-look-weak.html
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:25 am

nochain wrote:
Putin knows how weak BHO is which is why he wasn't concerned about annexing Crimea and is laughing about BHOs "sanctions"....

"Putin also watched the US over both Libya and Syria. Obama barely supported Nato’s actions against Tripoli and his 'red-line’ over the use of chemical weapons was nothing but hot air."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10669826/Ukraine-Putins-Crimea-aim-is-to-make-the-West-look-weak.html
 
    Read an article last week or the week before that the revolution is over in Syria and Assad is firmly in control.  Imagine what tactics used while the world was focused on Ukraine.  Remember the cowh had a do over--It isn't my red line it's the world's red line.  Which means nobody's gonna do nothing but I gotta try and save face.  Hope someone soon establishes some kind of foreign policy which is a very dangerous proposal five plus years into a second term.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:36 am

mediawatcher wrote:
nochain wrote:
Putin knows how weak BHO is which is why he wasn't concerned about annexing Crimea and is laughing about BHOs "sanctions"....

"Putin also watched the US over both Libya and Syria. Obama barely supported Nato’s actions against Tripoli and his 'red-line’ over the use of chemical weapons was nothing but hot air."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10669826/Ukraine-Putins-Crimea-aim-is-to-make-the-West-look-weak.html
 
    Read an article last week or the week before that the revolution is over in Syria and Assad is firmly in control.  Imagine what  tactics used while the world was focused on Ukraine.  Remember the cowh had a do over--It isn't my red line it's the world's red line.  Which means nobody's gonna do nothing but I gotta try and save face.  Hope someone soon establishes some kind of foreign policy which is a very dangerous proposal five plus years into a second term.

BHO has never had a coherent foreign policy, he is too weak and lazy to seriously analyze situations prior to making a decision. With Horse Face Kerry running all over the planet promising this and that and delivering nothing but meaningless sound bites why would any other foreign power give a hoot about U.S. opinion? Next up, China gobbles up the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands and Japan asks for our help. I have a feeling Russia is just starting on their land grabs too. BHO has turned this country into a France Clone, the laughingstock of industrial nations.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:39 am

nochain wrote:
mediawatcher wrote:
nochain wrote:
Putin knows how weak BHO is which is why he wasn't concerned about annexing Crimea and is laughing about BHOs "sanctions"....

"Putin also watched the US over both Libya and Syria. Obama barely supported Nato’s actions against Tripoli and his 'red-line’ over the use of chemical weapons was nothing but hot air."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10669826/Ukraine-Putins-Crimea-aim-is-to-make-the-West-look-weak.html
 
    Read an article last week or the week before that the revolution is over in Syria and Assad is firmly in control.  Imagine what  tactics used while the world was focused on Ukraine.  Remember the cowh had a do over--It isn't my red line it's the world's red line.  Which means nobody's gonna do nothing but I gotta try and save face.  Hope someone soon establishes some kind of foreign policy which is a very dangerous proposal five plus years into a second term.

BHO has never had a coherent foreign policy, he is too weak and lazy to seriously analyze situations prior to making a decision. With Horse Face Kerry running all over the planet promising this and that and delivering nothing but meaningless sound bites why would any other foreign power give a hoot about U.S. opinion? Next up, China gobbles up the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands and Japan asks for our help. I have a feeling Russia is just starting on their land grabs too. BHO has turned this country into a France Clone, the laughingstock of industrial nations.

Putin is taking and making it look like they wanted to be taken. Again, if you're into your second term and are still clueless what's the chance of a correction happening anytime soon. Poland has already asked for our help because of the tensions and wants a missle defense system and the cowh gave that away a long time ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:09 am

Still no response by Otter...... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:41 am

Jake92 wrote:
Still no response by Otter......  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Understand the frustration levels of the supporters...defenders....apologists of the cowh and his administration....the excuses and blaming someone (anyone) else are running out of steam. There are fewer and fewer that are accepting this tactic and the incompetence is GLARING!
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PostSubject: Re: Violence in Ukraine worsens....   Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:45 am

http://mobile.businessweek.com/news/2014-03-23/ukraine-s-top-diplomat-says-risk-of-war-with-russia-is-growing

This article represents so much that is wrong with our foreign policy, it literally makes me feel sick to my stomach. In one breath the author is saying that the US government is "considering" additional sanctions against Russia, including financial, military, energy, engineering, etc., and in the very next that the government is attempting to send aid to the Ukraine in the form of small arms and other military assistance, communications & technical (engineering) aid, fuel, tires, food, and USD$1BN (that's one BILLION) in "loan guarantees." (Someone explain to me how the Ukraine is going to repay that loan after the country gets swallowed up by Putin or has depeted all resources fighting Putin, cos I'm pretty sure that's where we're headed.)

I'm sure I don't have to point out the problem with this to you all. Why the hell are we sending Russia (or anybody else, for that matter) financial and military aid to begin with, and wtf kind of "energy" assistance are we sending them, praytell when we're in hock with the damn Saudis up to our eyeballs for oil??? And Russia produces a metric crap-ton of oil. Did I read that part of the article wrong. I hope??

Don't get me wrong. I think the worst of Putin. It's a horrible thing he is doing, I feel terribly for the Ukrainian people, and I fear he is quite literally going to slaughter their military, but it's none of our damn business. We have enough problems here at home without borrowing trouble from foreign countries.

Where in our constitution does it say that we must be the saviors of every troubled, unfortunate country in the world to the detriment of our own?
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