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 Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?

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riceme

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PostSubject: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:04 am

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mediawatcher

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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:09 am

riceme wrote:
Curious to hear what you all think. 

http://m.leadertelegram.com/news/daily_updates/article_d9a5fb30-92e1-11e3-a71c-001a4bcf887a.html?mode=jqm

'Accused' can be very vague and change from case to case....support terrorists?...active with terrorist?...associate with terrorists and/or terrorist supporters?....In the case of accused there is due process and even those that would be under this are still Americans and have rights...If there are Americans that are overseas and are active/planning...supporting terrorists then so be it...they deserve the fate they receive and should they be taken out by a drone or any other way...too bad....Like a couple of 'americans' (?) that were fighting with the taliban and were killed...This issue is why its confusing that there are some in the administration and elsewhere that feel non-Americans that are captured deserve the same due process as American citizens and tried in the American Judicial System...
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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:11 am

If the proof is there, take him out.
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nochain

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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:15 am

I have no sympathy for "terrorists" (aka murderers) but this is a slippery slope - when will it become OK to do the same here in the U.S.? If they know where this dude is based on a cell phone signal why not snatch him - but then the "snatchers" are placed at great risk. Tough question with no cut and dried answer.
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mediawatcher

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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:52 am

nochain wrote:
I have no sympathy for "terrorists" (aka murderers) but this is a slippery slope - when will it become OK to do the same here in the U.S.? If they know where this dude is based on a cell phone signal why not snatch him - but then the "snatchers" are placed at great risk. Tough question with no cut and dried answer.

Janet Napalitano (Former Homeland Director--under the cowh)....said drone strikes against Americans are UnConstitutional...Didn't specify as to whether on foreign or domestic soil at the time of strike...Would think on US soil would not be done but on foreign soil...oops....Agree that if suspected/accused...the objective would be to take the individual(s) into custody if they are in the US....
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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:47 pm

Technically, it probably is against American law.

But I say that if a person has declared himself an enemy of the U.S.A. and actively works to kill Americans, by all means take 'em out. By his actions, he has declared himself an enemy.

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riceme

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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:40 pm

You each hit on points that troubled me when I read the article... it's complicated and has the potential to have very far-reaching effects. Seems like an extraction team might be the best option, but the article said that he is heavily guarded, so that blows that option out. If he is in fact waging war (killing or even helping to kill) against Americans, then I'm good with killing him, but how do we know for sure? 

I really don't know what the right answer is here.
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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:04 pm

riceme wrote:
You each hit on points that troubled me when I read the article... it's complicated and has the potential to have very far-reaching effects. Seems like an extraction team might be the best option, but the article said that he is heavily guarded, so that blows that option out. If he is in fact waging war (killing or even helping to kill) against Americans, then I'm good with killing him, but how do we know for sure? 

I really don't know what the right answer is here.

Like one judge opined after BHO ordered al-Awlaki (an American citizen) whacked by drone (the strike also killed his 16 year old son who was visiting) - you need a court order to wire tap his phone but not to kill him. A slippery slope indeed. My problem is I wouldn't want a single U.S. casualty to occur while trying to capture a terrorist alive.
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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:09 pm

He ought to know the capability of the U.S. Military.  He also ought to know that drones kill suspected targets.  He also ought to know that he is a willing participant in waging Jihad against the United States.

Rule 43 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure does not allow for him to be tried in absentia, so we cannot legally convict him and sentence him to execution while he is in the Middle East.

If he is in Afghanistan, AND after a full case has been prepared about his guilt and complicity with terrorism, maybe the U.S. can clandestinely convince (i.e., bribe) Afghanistan to go after him in a raid.

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riceme

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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:41 pm

Okay E, but how to proceed establishing his guilt when he is not present to defend himself against his accusers and their charges? Know what I mean?
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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:23 pm

riceme wrote:
Okay E, but how to proceed establishing his guilt when he is not present to defend himself against his accusers and their charges? Know what I mean?

That is why Rule 43 says he cannot be tried in absentia.  He ought to know that we know he is over there and considering him an enemy combatant.  If he really wanted to clear his name, he could come home and set the record straight.

I don't think we should just sit back and let him plan and carry out attacks on Americans over there or elsewhere... do you?  What do you propose we do with him if he is truly guilty?  Wringing our hands in frustration isn't going to get us anywhere, that's for sure.

Until a preponderance of evidence indicates that he is guilty of crimes against Americans, I don't think we ought to do anything like a drone strike or use a third party to eliminate him.

But take a look at the big picture.  We are using drones to kill combatants day in and day out over there.  We are killing a lot of al Qaeda militants and sometimes innocent civilians.  Is it okay to kill them just because they are not Americans?  Should we be using drones to kill people at all?

Just because someone carries a rifle doesn't mean he is an enemy of America.  Afghanistan is a dangerous place and many people carry weapons from a very early age, just for protection.  Just like in Alaska, people carry weapons.  If two or three of them ride together in a truck, is it okay to hit them with a hellfire missile from a drone?  I obviously am not privvy to target acquisition and elimination, but from what little I have seen, it appears we are a bit trigger happy.

We need to get the hell out of there and let them proceed with killing each other.  They have been doing it for thousands of years and will continue to do so long after we are gone.  We got Osama.  We ain't gonna eliminate al Qaeda or the Taliban.

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nochain

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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:32 pm

Eric wrote:
riceme wrote:


We need to get the hell out of there and let them proceed with killing each other.  They have been doing it for thousands of years and will continue to do so long after we are gone.  We got Osama.  We ain't gonna eliminate al Qaeda or the Taliban.

My thoughts exactly. Having "been over there" I can say those people will never change and will turn on an American in a heartbeat if there were any advantage to them doing so. They get what they deserve as a people if they are too lazy, uneducated, and subservient to their religious "views" to effect change on their own.
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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:25 pm

I wasn't catching your meaning about Rule 43 earlier, but I got ya now. What you say and the questions you frame make a lot of sense to me. 

Dangit... I have to go. More later.
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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:19 am

nochain wrote:
Eric wrote:



We need to get the hell out of there and let them proceed with killing each other.  They have been doing it for thousands of years and will continue to do so long after we are gone.  We got Osama.  We ain't gonna eliminate al Qaeda or the Taliban.

My thoughts exactly. Having "been over there" I can say those people will never change and will turn on an American in a heartbeat if there were any advantage to them doing so. They get what they deserve as a people if they are too lazy, uneducated, and subservient to their religious "views" to effect change on their own.

    As another side note....the terrorists released from prisons by Karzai are reported to have walked out 'laughing' and vowing to return to the battlefield...And our troops are defending Karzai and his government that releases terrorists back into Afghan society?...When released...there was a target rich environment for a drone strike!....
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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:44 am

mediawatcher wrote:
nochain wrote:
Eric wrote:



We need to get the hell out of there and let them proceed with killing each other.  They have been doing it for thousands of years and will continue to do so long after we are gone.  We got Osama.  We ain't gonna eliminate al Qaeda or the Taliban.

My thoughts exactly. Having "been over there" I can say those people will never change and will turn on an American in a heartbeat if there were any advantage to them doing so. They get what they deserve as a people if they are too lazy, uneducated, and subservient to their religious "views" to effect change on their own.

    As another side note....the terrorists released from prisons by Karzai are reported to have walked out 'laughing' and vowing to return to the battlefield...And our troops are defending Karzai and his government that releases terrorists back into Afghan society?...When released...there was a target rich environment for a drone strike!....

The prisoner release is another example of why we can never trust those cretins. Maybe the next time the ex-prisoners run into Americans they won't be taken prisoner......
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PostSubject: Re: Should the US drone strike/kill an American citizen accused of terrorism?   Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:10 am

nochain wrote:
mediawatcher wrote:
nochain wrote:
Eric wrote:



We need to get the hell out of there and let them proceed with killing each other.  They have been doing it for thousands of years and will continue to do so long after we are gone.  We got Osama.  We ain't gonna eliminate al Qaeda or the Taliban.

My thoughts exactly. Having "been over there" I can say those people will never change and will turn on an American in a heartbeat if there were any advantage to them doing so. They get what they deserve as a people if they are too lazy, uneducated, and subservient to their religious "views" to effect change on their own.

    As another side note....the terrorists released from prisons by Karzai are reported to have walked out 'laughing' and vowing to return to the battlefield...And our troops are defending Karzai and his government that releases terrorists back into Afghan society?...When released...there was a target rich environment for a drone strike!....

The prisoner release is another example of why we can never trust those cretins. Maybe the next time the ex-prisoners run into Americans they won't be taken prisoner......

At least your way the troops won't have to deal with them twice...It's long past time to put in place a multinational force to be peacekeepers and for the US to exit....
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