Current Whitehouse attitude

Exactly, a good article in the Washington Times on this subject today. I find it strange that BHO was "not aware" of any problems with the rollout of Oblamercare - or Benghazi - or Fast and Furious - or the IRS, etc. Is he so narcissistic that he never even bothered to ask how things were going? Probably.

"He’s no Truman: It seems the buck doesn’t stop at Obama’s Oval Office desk"

"In the Obama White House these days, the buck stops somewhere — anywhere — below the president.

White House aides insisted Wednesday that President Obama wasn’t told about major problems with the Obamacare website before its failed launch, adding to the growing list of blunders in which his advisers allegedly have kept him in the dark."


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/for-obama-it-seems-the-buck-doesnt-stop-at-the-ova/

nochain wrote:

Exactly, a good article in the Washington Times on this subject today. I find it strange that BHO was "not aware" of any problems with the rollout of Oblamercare - or Benghazi - or Fast and Furious - or the IRS, etc. Is he so narcissistic that he never even bothered to ask how things were going? Probably.

"He’s no Truman: It seems the buck doesn’t stop at Obama’s Oval Office desk"

"In the Obama White House these days, the buck stops somewhere — anywhere — below the president.

White House aides insisted Wednesday that President Obama wasn’t told about major problems with the Obamacare website before its failed launch, adding to the growing list of blunders in which his advisers allegedly have kept him in the dark."


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/for-obama-it-seems-the-buck-doesnt-stop-at-the-ova/

    By the way....Hillary was heckled during a speech in Buffalo about Benghazi....she said yelling isn't the way to discuss issues. the same Hillary that said protesting and demanding answers was a "patriotic duty"...well that was during the Bush Administration!.....guess that also applies to being under oath and not discussing....Today the people that set up the website are in front of Congress and they are expected to acknowledge the 'glitches' but are also going to explain that they made the administration aware of the 'glitches'.....Of course the cowh will never have known but Sebelius may be the scapegoat...Congress is suspicious as to why before the rollout of the plan that she refused to testify....guess that's been answered....

There haven't been any "bucks" stopping at ANY White House since Ollie North took the fall for Reagan and pappy Bush and the American public let them get away with it.

Otter wrote:

There haven't been any "bucks" stopping at ANY White House since Ollie North took the fall for Reagan and pappy Bush and the American public let them get away with it.

Hmmm, but it's OK for a host of BHO officials to take a fall for him over various scandals occurring right now? Interesting. BTW, North had all charges vacated so it wasn't exactly like "taking a fall". He did his job and as a result was charged but at the end of the day was vindicated. Now, when do the trials start for Fast and Furious, Benghazi, IRSGATE, NSAGATE, Free Green MoneyGate (Solyndra, Fisker, and who knows how many other bogus green payouts), Sebelius' violation of the Hatch Act, Libya bombing, etc.

Oliver North was not "vindicated." That's a very odd use of that word. Here's what happened in his case:

Because North had been granted limited immunity for his Congressional testimony, the law prohibited a prosecutor from using that testimony as part of a criminal case against him. To prepare for the expected defense challenge that North's testimony had been used, the prosecution team had—before North's congressional testimony had been given—listed and isolated all of its evidence.[citation needed] Further, the individual members of the prosecution team had isolated themselves from news reports and discussion of North's testimony. While the defense could show no specific instance in which North's congressional testimony was used in his trial, the Court of Appeals ruled that the trial judge had made an insufficient examination of the issue. Consequently, North's convictions were reversed. After further hearings on the immunity issue, Judge Gesell dismissed all charges against North on September 16, 1991.

In other words, nobody cleared Ollie North of anything. The appellate judge simply said the trial judge did not do his job properly. Ollie North was guilty of sin, and to those of us who might have respected him for his military service, he did "take a fall." He lost his good reputation before much of the American public.

And I'd suggest that those trials begin just as soon as the one begins for George W Bush allowing torture of prisoners before the War Crimes court at the Hague.

Otter wrote:

Oliver North was not "vindicated."  That's a very odd use of that word. Here's what happened in his case:

Because North had been granted limited immunity for his Congressional testimony, the law prohibited a prosecutor from using that testimony as part of a criminal case against him. To prepare for the expected defense challenge that North's testimony had been used, the prosecution team had—before North's congressional testimony had been given—listed and isolated all of its evidence.[citation needed] Further, the individual members of the prosecution team had isolated themselves from news reports and discussion of North's testimony. While the defense could show no specific instance in which North's congressional testimony was used in his trial, the Court of Appeals ruled that the trial judge had made an insufficient examination of the issue. Consequently, North's convictions were reversed. After further hearings on the immunity issue, Judge Gesell dismissed all charges against North on September 16, 1991.

In other words, nobody cleared Ollie North of anything.  The appellate judge simply said the trial judge did not do his job properly. Ollie North was guilty of sin, and to those of us who might have respected him for his military service, he did "take a fall." He lost his good reputation before much of the American public.

And I'd suggest that those trials begin just as soon as the one begins for George W Bush allowing torture of prisoners before the War Crimes court at the Hague.

LOL

vin·di·cate (v n d -k t ). tr.v. vin·di·cat·ed, vin·di·cat·ing, vin·di·cates. 1. To clear of accusation, blame, suspicion, or doubt with supporting arguments or proof.

Sounds pretty much like "dismissal" as used in your wikipedia explanation.

Oh yes, the Bush theme again - after all this time one would think the point moot. Except Progressives who only trot out the Bush theme as a form of defense when BHO's administration is questioned. Amusing.

North is a scumbag.

Eric wrote:

North is a scumbag.  

Perhaps in some ways. I do remember my favorite part of the inquisition though - his lawyer stating "I am not a potted plant" in response to some dicta from the whoever was asking questions. I found that hilarious for some reason.

You remade my point for me by defining vindicate.He has never been cleared of blame or found not guilty from supporting evidence. He was simply allowed to go free because one appellate judge said another judge hadn't done his job well enough.

Those are the facts nochain. Ollie North violated his sworn oath to serve the protect the constitution with his illegal activities in Iran Contra.
He proudly told Congress that he'd shredded the evidence against him.

Honest men don't shred evidence nochain.
And that's the truth.

Otter wrote:

You remade my point for me by defining  vindicate.He has never been cleared of blame or found not guilty from supporting evidence. He was simply allowed to go free because one appellate judge said another judge hadn't done his job well enough.

Those are the facts nochain. Ollie North violated his sworn oath to serve  the protect the constitution with his illegal activities in Iran Contra.  
He proudly told Congress that he'd shredded the evidence against him.

Honest men don't shred evidence nochain.
And that's the truth.

All charges were dismissed with the concurrence of counsel for the government and the defense. What more do you need to say? As if it makes any difference. LOL.

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

You remade my point for me by defining  vindicate.He has never been cleared of blame or found not guilty from supporting evidence. He was simply allowed to go free because one appellate judge said another judge hadn't done his job well enough.

Those are the facts nochain. Ollie North violated his sworn oath to serve  the protect the constitution with his illegal activities in Iran Contra.  
He proudly told Congress that he'd shredded the evidence against him.

Honest men don't shred evidence nochain.
And that's the truth.

All charges were dismissed with the concurrence of counsel for the government and the defense. What more do you need to say? As if it makes any difference. LOL.

In order to excuse/justify the incompetence of this administration by having to go back and rehash Iran/Contra is truly pathetic...Time for the admin and some supporters to stop blaming and accept some responsibility and accountability...

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

You remade my point for me by defining  vindicate.He has never been cleared of blame or found not guilty from supporting evidence. He was simply allowed to go free because one appellate judge said another judge hadn't done his job well enough.

Those are the facts nochain. Ollie North violated his sworn oath to serve  the protect the constitution with his illegal activities in Iran Contra.  
He proudly told Congress that he'd shredded the evidence against him.

Honest men don't shred evidence nochain.
And that's the truth.

All charges were dismissed with the concurrence of counsel for the government and the defense. What more do you need to say? As if it makes any difference. LOL.

There have been a lot of dirtbags who got off scot free because of a technicality or because the judge screwed up in a case.
Ollie North was one of them.

It doesn't make him innocent.

mediawatcher wrote:

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

You remade my point for me by defining  vindicate.He has never been cleared of blame or found not guilty from supporting evidence. He was simply allowed to go free because one appellate judge said another judge hadn't done his job well enough.

Those are the facts nochain. Ollie North violated his sworn oath to serve  the protect the constitution with his illegal activities in Iran Contra.  
He proudly told Congress that he'd shredded the evidence against him.

Honest men don't shred evidence nochain.
And that's the truth.

All charges were dismissed with the concurrence of counsel for the government and the defense. What more do you need to say? As if it makes any difference. LOL.

     In order to excuse/justify  the incompetence of this administration by having to go back and rehash Iran/Contra is truly pathetic...Time for the admin and some supporters to stop blaming and accept some responsibility and accountability...

I'll accept responsibility for Obama's mistakes when you accept responsibility for the wrecked economy of George W Bush, for the hundred thousand innocent Iraqis who died in our war over WMD's that no longer existed, and for the rest of the  Bush administration's war crimes

The truth is that in the last two presidential elections, there was very little to choose from. I believe I chose the lesser of two evils.

[quote="Otter"]

mediawatcher wrote:

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

Y.

I'll accept responsibility for Obama's mistakes when you accept responsibility for the wrecked economy of George W Bush, for the hundred thousand innocent Iraqis who died in our war over WMD's that no longer existed, and for the rest of the  Bush administration's war crimes

The truth is that in the last two presidential elections, there was very little to choose from. I believe I chose the lesser of two evils.

Why should anyone "accept responsibility" for a Presidents mistakes except the President?

Otter wrote:

You remade my point for me by defining  vindicate.He has never been cleared of blame or found not guilty from supporting evidence. He was simply allowed to go free because one appellate judge said another judge hadn't done his job well enough.

Those are the facts nochain. Ollie North violated his sworn oath to serve  the protect the constitution with his illegal activities in Iran Contra.  
He proudly told Congress that he'd shredded the evidence against him.

Honest men don't shred evidence nochain.
And that's the truth.

Well here is your chance to meet your hero in PERSON!

"Oliver North, who has had a colorful and controversial career in public life, is scheduled to appear in Pensacola on Nov. 18 to promote his latest book: “American Heroes: On the Homefront.”

North, 70, a highly decorated former Marine Corps lieutenant colonel, was later deputy-secretary of the National Security Council under President Ronald Reagan and implicated in the so-called Irangate scandal. The charges involved the operation of a secret slush fund to aid the Contra guerrillas in Nicaragua using the proceeds from weapons sales to Iran. He was cleared of all charges in 1991."

http://www.pnj.com/article/20131028/NEWS01/131028016/Oliver-North-speak-Pensacola

Yeah, I saw that this morning. I think I can miss him.
I heard a discussion on Progressive radio today about Obama and the NSA spying on the German Chancellor (why does she seem to be the most vocal critic of it- is it because she has a pouty look on her face most of the time?)
Anyway- they played the clip where the POTUS denies knowing about it. I have to say, Bill Clinton has nothing on Obama as far as his skills in avoiding a question go. I think Obama could have slicked his way out of the Monica Lewinsky scandal in a New York Minute.
He is very smooth, even when he's not telling the truth.

A lot slicker than Slick Willie even.

Ollie North Quotes:

Quote :

I was provided with additional input that was radically different from the truth. I assisted in furthering that version.

Quote :

It's one thing to say don't commit atrocities on the battlefield. It's another thing to say don't get caught doing atrocities.

Quote :

I was authorized to do everything that I did.

Eric wrote:

Ollie North Quotes:

Quote :

I was provided with additional input that was radically different from the truth. I assisted in furthering that version.

Quote :

It's one thing to say don't commit atrocities on the battlefield. It's another thing to say don't get caught doing atrocities.

Quote :

I was authorized to do everything that I did.

I've always believed that third statement is true. I'm not sure who did the authorization though, whether it came from the president or from the VP. Pappy Bush was, and is, a very intelligent man. As a former head of the CIA, he certainly knew how to get things done in secret whether they were legal under our congressional form of government or not.
I'm not sure Reagan had the mental ability back at that time to organize a plan like Iran-Contra.

Oh, Ollie North believes he is a true patriot... and maybe he is. I also believe he was authorized to do everything he did.

But, so were the soldiers of Company C at My Lai, where over 300 unarmed civilians were murdered.

Being authorized or ordered to do something, doesn't make it morally right... or legal.

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

mediawatcher wrote:

nochain wrote:

Otter wrote:

Y.

I'll accept responsibility for Obama's mistakes when you accept responsibility for the wrecked economy of George W Bush, for the hundred thousand innocent Iraqis who died in our war over WMD's that no longer existed, and for the rest of the  Bush administration's war crimes

The truth is that in the last two presidential elections, there was very little to choose from. I believe I chose the lesser of two evils.

Why should anyone "accept responsibility" for a Presidents mistakes except the President?

Correct.... the I didn't know and I found out the same time as most Americans on the news is so beneath anyone that's supposed to be a leader...No problem with differences of opinions but when some hold Bush accountable and responsible for every problem in the world...past and present and then excuse the cowh for Fast & Furious...IRS...NSA....Benghazi...[name] cowh healthcare is beyond logic...but when the term 'war crimes' is used it explains the lack of logic displayed...