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 So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?

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nochain

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PostSubject: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:33 am

SOME repubs want to eliminate or at least delay funding for the ACA – just because most Americans want the same thing is no reason for Dems to play along. The R party is essentially being held hostage by Tea Baggers – but those same Tea Baggers are being driven by their constituents – so I guess in some misguided way they are doing their job but to please a few while possibly hurting the country as a whole.
On the other side of the great divide (no longer just an aisle) we have Harry Reid – who last week was polled as the most despised politician in Washington refusing to compromise one iota – this is in conflict with what most Americans want. Even delaying the ACA is not good enough for him and his BHO lemmings – they want all or nothing, not even willing to discuss options – they slammed the door immediately. Meanwhile the alleged leader of this country has not attempted to broker a deal and instead could be found on the golf course this past weekend. Now there is leadership for you….
So who gets the blame if some last second deal is not made? Whoever gets the least media explanation that’s who because the average American can’t see past the headlines, if that.

The heart of the problem is the ACA – it’s poorly designed and its execution has so far been a disaster. NOBODY can agree on its impact but there are many (probably) accurate opinions on its many negative consequences that have already started occurring. Perhaps it’s time to say OK, the ACA needs work – lets delay it for awhile (BHO has already done so for a portion of it) until the problems and unintended consequences can be tweaked out so a real launch has a better chance of success.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:56 pm

Simple answer...thje GOP and the intransigent freak Cruz.

Hes drowning your party like a bag of tea in hot water.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:02 pm

Hombre wrote:
Simple answer...thje GOP and the intransigent freak Cruz.

Hes drowning your party like a bag of tea in hot water.
Cruz will dry up eventually - like the tea baggers and Harry Reid. Of course both parties are responsible for this all too common shutdown threat - they have demands they aren't (supposedly) willing to back away from but it seems that is only OK for the Dems. They want to continue pushing the broken (even before it has fully started) ACA program when the majority of Americans don't want it. Go figure.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:09 pm

Why ask the question if you only wish to spin the obvious? Article after article by a myriad group of pundits on both sides of this pizzin contest clearly state that the shutdown will harm the GOP way more than the Democrats.

Why are neocons and teabaggers so intent on America failing? Grover Norquist started the rhetoric with his drowning the fed gov in a bath tub remarks.

Ted is just the latest anarchist to take up that mantle.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:24 pm

Hombre wrote:
Why ask the question if you only wish to spin the obvious?  Article after article by a myriad group of pundits on both sides of this pizzin contest clearly state that the shutdown will harm the GOP way more than the Democrats.

Why are neocons and teabaggers so intent on America failing?  Grover Norquist started the rhetoric with his drowning the fed gov in a bath tub remarks.

Ted is just the latest anarchist to take up that mantle.  
I hope all of the current occupants of Congress get thrown out for their sheer stupidity. Since I don't think like a "neocon or tea bagger" I don't know what their motivation really is - doubtful it is the extreme of wanting America to fail though. That is not likely to happen anytime soon although ultraliberal progressives love to toot that plastic horn. When neither side is even willing to negotiate I would have to say they are both at fault. It's tough being an independent thinker with so many partyholics running around.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:30 pm

From what I have read, the Republican party is unable to control the tea party faction.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:38 pm

Melissa (PB) wrote:
From what I have read, the Republican party is unable to control the tea party faction.
Very true. The T/Bs are extremist in their views - like any fringe group on the right or left. I don't even consider Baggers Republicans anyway they just fall under that umbrella for convenience to get around primary voting restrictions otherwise you would probably never see one in office. Too bad there aren't more moderates running around the hallowed halls.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:41 pm

If we had more moderates, perhaps Congress could accomplish something.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:42 pm

Melissa (PB) wrote:
If we had more moderates, perhaps Congress could accomplish something.
Moderates are the silent majority - perhaps it's time they started making some noise.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:01 am

nochain wrote:
Melissa (PB) wrote:
From what I have read, the Republican party is unable to control the tea party faction.
Very true. The T/Bs are extremist in their views - like any fringe group on the right or left. I don't even consider Baggers Republicans anyway they just fall under that umbrella for convenience to get around primary voting restrictions otherwise you would probably never see one in office. Too bad there aren't more moderates running around the hallowed halls.
    'Extreme in their views'.....of wanting Congress/staffs/interns under the same [name] cowh healthcare coverage that the rest of Americans are being forced into?...That they believe in smaller/limited government and are against such abuses as the NSA...IRS scandals?...Extreme to demand that the cowh seek Congressional approval before he made a move on Syria?...Extreme to demand that the administration and HRC explain their actions/inactions on Benghazi?. Demanding that the AG provide information on Fast and Furious is extreme?....Or of course could simply go with the likes of McCain...Graham and other great moderates and roll over and go along with the business as usual attitude after placing a finger in the air and seeing which way the wind is blowing....that's leadership and what we need?...If so we'd be at it with Syria and that was VERY unpopular with both conservatives and liberals that never agree on much...but those moderates fell right in line with the cowh...There is nothing wrong with compromise but do some research about how many pieces of legislation was passed and sent to the Senate by the House only to be met with "no negotiations"..."no conversations"...and "DOA"...Now that legislation was not going to pass the Senate BUT could it have been an opening for some negotiations/compromise before just killing it?....Have you listened to the cowh (as difficult as it may be) recently?...He's leading(?) as he always has...no negotiations/no compromise and has the media in his back pocket to blame everyone else and yet he's not "extreme"....In the posts there was only one mention of Harry Reid by 'nochain' which pretty much explains that only certain folks are being blamed and yet those that are in charge of the Senate and the WH are given ANOTHER free pass..The business as usual is exactly how we end up with career government workers like Lois Lerner that abuses her power...gets a five month paid vacation and then allowed to retire with a 50K a year salary....no self responsibility and certainly no self accountability....why because no one want to be seen as 'extreme' and do the right thing...
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:01 am

mediawatcher wrote:
nochain wrote:
Melissa (PB) wrote:
From what I have read, the Republican party is unable to control the tea party faction.
Very true. The T/Bs are extremist in their views - like any fringe group on the right or left. I don't even consider Baggers Republicans anyway they just fall under that umbrella for convenience to get around primary voting restrictions otherwise you would probably never see one in office. Too bad there aren't more moderates running around the hallowed halls.
   and the WH are given ANOTHER free pass..The business as usual is exactly how we end up with career government workers like Lois Lerner that abuses her power...gets a five month paid vacation and then allowed to retire with a 50K a year salary....no self responsibility and certainly no self accountability....why because no one want to be seen as 'extreme' and do the right thing...
The problem with the T/B's is that their message is lost in all the noise. If they would calm down a little and work the system they could accomplish something. Ain't going to work any other way.....
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:14 am

  'Extreme in their views'.....of wanting Congress/staffs/interns under the same [name] cowh healthcare coverage that the rest of Americans are being forced into?...That they believe in smaller/limited government and are against such abuses as the NSA...IRS scandals?...Extreme to demand that the cowh seek Congressional approval before he made a move on Syria?...Extreme to demand that the administration and HRC explain their actions/inactions on Benghazi?. Demanding that the AG provide information on Fast and Furious is extreme?....Or of course could simply go with the likes of McCain...Graham and other great moderates and roll over and go along with the business as usual attitude after placing a finger in the air and seeing which way the wind is blowing....that's leadership and what we need?...If so we'd be at it with Syria and that was VERY unpopular with both conservatives and liberals that never agree on much...but those moderates fell right in line with the cowh...There is nothing wrong with compromise but do some research about how many pieces of legislation was passed and sent to the Senate by the House only to be met with "no negotiations"..."no conversations"...and "DOA"...Now that legislation was not going to pass the Senate BUT could it have been an opening for some negotiations/compromise before just killing it?....Have you listened to the cowh (as difficult as it may be) recently?...He's leading(?) as he always has...no negotiations/no compromise and has the media in his back pocket to blame everyone else and yet he's not "extreme"....In the posts there was only one mention of Harry Reid by 'nochain' which pretty much explains that only certain folks are being blamed and yet those that are in charge of the Senate and the WH are given ANOTHER free pass..The business as usual is exactly how we end up with career government workers like Lois Lerner that abuses her power...gets a five month paid vacation and then allowed to retire with a 50K a year salary....no self responsibility and certainly no self accountability....why because no one want to be seen as 'extreme' and do the right thing...[/quote]

I love your post, MW!
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:21 am

stormwatch89 wrote:
  'Extreme in their views'.....of wanting Congress/staffs/interns under the same [name] cowh healthcare coverage that the rest of Americans are being forced into?...That they believe in smaller/limited government and are against such abuses as the NSA...IRS scandals?...Extreme to demand that the cowh seek Congressional approval before he made a move on Syria?...Extreme to demand that the administration and HRC explain their actions/inactions on Benghazi?. Demanding that the AG provide information on Fast and Furious is extreme?....Or of course could simply go with the likes of McCain...Graham and other great moderates and roll over and go along with the business as usual attitude after placing a finger in the air and seeing which way the wind is blowing....that's leadership and what we need?...If so we'd be at it with Syria and that was VERY unpopular with both conservatives and liberals that never agree on much...but those moderates fell right in line with the cowh...There is nothing wrong with compromise but do some research about how many pieces of legislation was passed and sent to the Senate by the House only to be met with "no negotiations"..."no conversations"...and "DOA"...Now that legislation was not going to pass the Senate BUT could it have been an opening for some negotiations/compromise before just killing it?....Have you listened to the cowh (as difficult as it may be) recently?...He's leading(?) as he always has...no negotiations/no compromise and has the media in his back pocket to blame everyone else and yet he's not "extreme"....In the posts there was only one mention of Harry Reid by 'nochain' which pretty much explains that only certain folks are being blamed and yet those that are in charge of the Senate and the WH are given ANOTHER free pass..The business as usual is exactly how we end up with career government workers like Lois Lerner that abuses her power...gets a five month paid vacation and then allowed to retire with a 50K a year salary....no self responsibility and certainly no self accountability....why because no one want to be seen as 'extreme' and do the right thing...
I love your post, MW![/quote]
The problem with republicans/conservatives is that they allow the narrow minded media and left to paint a portrait of extremists without attempting to educate and/or get their message out....When there are democrats that outwardly call republicans 'terrorists'...'arsonists' etc., and those outlandish comparasions go unchallanged by the media and the republicans is an illustraiton of the problem...When Sen Cruz for his beliefs listed above is an extremeist and those on the left that use hate rhetoric and it's acceptable there's a problem...The cowh was/is responsible for the sequestration policies and yet he's been allowed to backtrack and suddenly it's the fault of the republicans/conservatives/tea party...When this administration used Homeland Security to monitor Tea Party Rallies and yet put up with the Occupy Movement you'd have thought more would have woke up and saw the problem...It's easy to admit to being fooled once or twice after the fact but it's time for citizens that participate to quit being fools and quit re-electing career politicans that do nothing but secure their jobs...power...and pad their retirements....And before there's someone that gets their drawers in a bundle...that's BOTH parties...When a politician becomes more in tune with doing what's best for themselves rather than what's best for the country then it's time to go...These Senators and Representatives have had enough time to get a budget deal done but they've played politics...There could have been negotiations on House passed legislation but where did it die?...Under who's leadership?....Instead of finding some common ground that could be agreed upon Ole Harry played the real extremist....And yet who's portrayed as the problem?...'Melissa' was correct in her comment about the republicans can't control the tea party....THANKFULLY!!!!....The Tea Party is there to remind some of the spineless...establishment republicans of their positions are more than just rhetoric when it's popular...Too bad there's not a voice on the other side to remind liberals...but you see that would never be tolerated by that machine that claims to be so open and compassionate...There's a reason that Sen's McCain...McConnell...and Graham can't stand Sens Paul..Lee.. Rubio...and Cruz because they embarrass the old guard for becoming more like the democrats rather than the conservatives they proclaim to be...
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:30 am

mediawatcher wrote:
stormwatch89 wrote:
 
    There could have been negotiations on House passed legislation but where did it die?...Under who's leadership?....Instead of finding some common ground that could be agreed upon Ole Harry played the real extremist....And yet who's portrayed as the problem?...'Melissa' was correct in her comment about the republicans can't control the tea party....THANKFULLY!!!!....The Tea Party is there to remind some of the spineless...establishment republicans of their positions are more than just rhetoric when it's popular...Too bad there's not a voice on the other side to remind liberals...but you see that would never be tolerated by that machine that claims to be so open and compassionate...There's a reason that Sen's McCain...McConnell...and Graham can't stand Sens Paul..Lee.. Rubio...and Cruz because they embarrass the old guard for becoming more like the democrats rather than the conservatives they proclaim to be...
Good points, I am no fan of the T/P but I am even less of a fan of that hypocrite Reid who points across the aisle and mutters That bill is DOA without even attempting to negotiate a middle ground. And where was the alleged President during the last few weeks? Playing golf and talking to the Iranians and anyone else not associated with Congress. His lack of leadership ability has never been more on display than recently. I was under the impression a President was supposed to get involved - but BHO doesn't want to get his hands dirty even though the crux of this whole problem is his crown jewel - Oblamercare - a disaster that is now upon us.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:51 am

Both sides of the aisle are so rabidly partisan, I don't see ANYTHING useful happening in D.C. anytime soon.

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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:06 am

nochain wrote:
mediawatcher wrote:
stormwatch89 wrote:
 
    There could have been negotiations on House passed legislation but where did it die?...Under who's leadership?....Instead of finding some common ground that could be agreed upon Ole Harry played the real extremist....And yet who's portrayed as the problem?...'Melissa' was correct in her comment about the republicans can't control the tea party....THANKFULLY!!!!....The Tea Party is there to remind some of the spineless...establishment republicans of their positions are more than just rhetoric when it's popular...Too bad there's not a voice on the other side to remind liberals...but you see that would never be tolerated by that machine that claims to be so open and compassionate...There's a reason that Sen's McCain...McConnell...and Graham can't stand Sens Paul..Lee.. Rubio...and Cruz because they embarrass the old guard for becoming more like the democrats rather than the conservatives they proclaim to be...
Good points, I am no fan of the T/P but I am even less of a fan of that hypocrite Reid who points across the aisle and mutters That bill is DOA without even attempting to negotiate a middle ground. And where was the alleged President during the last few weeks? Playing golf and talking to the Iranians and anyone else not associated with Congress. His lack of leadership ability has never been more on display than recently. I was under the impression a President was supposed to get involved - but BHO doesn't want to get his hands dirty even though the crux of this whole problem is his crown jewel - Oblamercare - a disaster that is now upon us.
Then for those thoughts....you too would be a 'teabagger'....'racist'....terrorist!...How dare anyone disagree with the cowh on policies and his actions...
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:52 pm



My personal hatred is the media and MW's got it right. We have maybe 1 channel who purposely tries to present both positions and all the others are hopelessly left and offer no alternatives. Yet, they seduce the public with pathetic dance contests and other simple crap the masses enjoy.

I've spent many years trying to avoid being judgmental, but seriously? Watching the mainstream "American...or ur, man on the street" who's to blame for the left wing bias?
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:03 pm

Just out of curiousity....we know the government will open up again. What do you all think will be the common ground? What will they finally agree on in order to "open" the federal government?

I think they will wind up agreeing to delay the tax on medical supplies for a year.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:31 pm

I think the Pugs will cave, saddly.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:18 pm

Melissa wrote:
Just out of curiousity....we know the government will open up again. What do you all think will be the common ground? What will they finally agree on in order to "open" the federal government?

I think they will wind up agreeing to delay the tax on medical supplies for a year.
If BHO would meet with Congressional leaders and try to broker a deal the device tax would probably be an ice breaker. Both sides could say they "gave up something in the interests of the country" to save face. As if two faced politicians really care about saving face - they just want to be reelected - nothing else matters to them.
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:30 pm

BHOs explanation to federal employees is a partisan hairball - will he never accept one iota of responsibility for ANYTHING??? And the Senate votes NO to opening discussions? Who is the party of NO now?

"On Tuesday, Mr Obama blamed the House of Representatives for the stalemate and said he would "keep working to get Congress to reopen the government [and] restart vital services".

"This shutdown was completely preventable. It should not have happened," he wrote in a letter to federal government employees.

"And the House of Representatives can end it as soon as it follows the Senate's lead, and funds your work in the United States Government without trying to attach highly controversial and partisan measures in the process."

(Of course he conveniently ignores the Senates highly controversial and partisan refusal to deal with the HIGHLY controversial ACA)

On Monday, House Speaker John Boehner told reporters he hoped the Senate would agree to a committee between the two chambers known as a conference "so we can resolve this for the American people".

"The House has voted to keep the government open but we also want basic fairness for all Americans under Obamacare," he said.

But on Tuesday morning, the Senate voted 54-46 to reject the request for formal negotiations to end the impasse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24343698
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:39 pm


I'll bet our great gubment spent more money erecting barricades and printing signs than it would have been to let people visit the Lincoln Memorial.


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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:56 pm

Here are a few opinions as to who is to blame. Not knowing much (admittedly) about the process, I thought these opinions were pretty good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24346960

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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:35 am

So the folks that caused this shutdown mess still get paid, how nice. They are probably the only people who can fail at their job and continue to get paid.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/shutdown-congress-staff-paid/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
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PostSubject: Re: So – who gets blamed if the government shuts down?   Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:47 am

nochain wrote:
So the folks that caused this shutdown mess still get paid, how nice. They are probably the only people who can fail at their job and continue to get paid.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/shutdown-congress-staff-paid/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
The House was rejected on legislation three times yesterday and will again attempt to pass legislation for key elements of the government to re-open.....already has been declared DOA by Sen Reid should it pass and the cowh says he'll veto....The first salaries and benefits that should have been cancelled should have been Congress (ALL) the cowh..and his administration....Would like to see the GOP Leadership to hold a press conference and announce that the republican members of the House and Senate will not receive paychecks until shutdown is resolved...They are missing some valuable PR and it would be the correct move...
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