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mediawatcher

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PostSubject: Syria....   Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:14 am

Just a little reminder for some......remember when one point of the argument for military force in Iraq was that sadaam used chemical weapons against his own people in the north?...Many (several/most liberals) would dismiss this and simply say that the US had no business invading Iraq even though there were women and children slaughtered....NOW...some/many of these same individuals are beating the war drums for the the US to attack Syria because they've used chemical weapons against their own people and women and children have been slaughtered....The cowh campaigned against the Iraq War at every opportunity even though there was evidence that chemicals were used and the Bush Administration (agree or disagree) had the support of Congress for military action....Strange that the war protestors are suddenly silent.....New poll out....9% support military action....
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:45 am

It's too late to do anything in Syria, that chance is long gone now that the rebel groups have been corrupted by terrorist groups. Shooting a few Tomahawks at the Syrian Air Force etc will only cause more problems. Nope, like it or not BHO had better hope Assad wins this war as bad as that option might be.
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:55 am

nochain wrote:
It's too late to do anything in Syria, that chance is long gone now that the rebel groups have been corrupted by terrorist groups. Shooting a few Tomahawks at the Syrian Air Force etc will only cause more problems. Nope, like it or not BHO had better hope Assad wins this war as bad as that option might be.
    Bob Beckle (liberal on The Five) was calling for missle strikes on Syrian military compounds and a no fly zone....then an excellent point was made...what country would be first to fly into Sryia and dare anyone to shoot down their aircraft?....Russia would challange that right from the beginning....Correct...as bad as Assad may be he may be the best option over terrorist influenced rebels and that's really sad...If we've (cowh) sat on our hands and lead from the rear...drawn a line in the sand a year ago...why are we suddenly going against whatever appeasement policies that we've had in place?....If Europe wants actions...then allow them to do the heavy lifting...Western powers tell Syria expect bombings in next couple of days....Russia and now China warn against any attacks---DOW Plunges....
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Eric

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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:30 pm

During the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq was using chemical weapons.  Since Iran was our least favorite nation in the area, we (the U.S.) fed intelligence to Iraq that a certain area was vulnerable to attack and Iran was fixing to kick their butt.  Iraq used chemical weapons there and we didn't say a damn thing about it.

Well, we didn't say anything about Iraq's use of chemical weapons until the sabre-rattling started before our invasion(s) of Iraq.



Now, we are looking at hitting the tarbaby again... (think Iraq & Afghanistan), and Russia and China support the current Syrian regime.  We cannot afford to get into a conflict with them.

It's not right that chemical weapons are being used in Syria, but who appointed us to be the world's policeman?

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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:46 pm

Eric wrote:
During the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq was using chemical weapons.  Since Iran was our least favorite nation in the area, we (the U.S.) fed intelligence to Iraq that a certain area was vulnerable to attack and Iran was fixing to kick their butt.  Iraq used chemical weapons there and we didn't say a damn thing about it.

Well, we didn't say anything about Iraq's use of chemical weapons until the sabre-rattling started before our invasion(s) of Iraq.



Now, we are looking at hitting the tarbaby again... (think Iraq & Afghanistan), and Russia and China support the current Syrian regime.  We cannot afford to get into a conflict with them.

It's not right that chemical weapons are being used in Syria, but who appointed us to be the world's policeman?
And how can we be certain who used the weapons with all the terrorists running around Syria right now? They don't value life at all, I agree that it's a bad thing but I don't want to see our military bogged down in another Somalia, Iraq, or Afghanistan. If only BHO hadn't thumped his chest over the "red line" - now he probably feels like he has to do something or lose even more credibility - as if he had any anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:28 pm

nochain wrote:
Eric wrote:
During the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq was using chemical weapons.  Since Iran was our least favorite nation in the area, we (the U.S.) fed intelligence to Iraq that a certain area was vulnerable to attack and Iran was fixing to kick their butt.  Iraq used chemical weapons there and we didn't say a damn thing about it.

Well, we didn't say anything about Iraq's use of chemical weapons until the sabre-rattling started before our invasion(s) of Iraq.



[tr][/
Now, we are looking at hitting the tarbaby again... (think Iraq & Afghanistan), and Russia and China support the current Syrian regime.  We cannot afford to get into a conflict with them.

It's not right that chemical weapons are being used in Syria, but who appointed us to be the world's policeman?
And how can we be certain who used the weapons with all the terrorists running around Syria right now? They don't value life at all, I agree that it's a bad thing but I don't want to see our military bogged down in another Somalia, Iraq, or Afghanistan. If only BHO hadn't thumped his chest over the "red line" - now he probably feels like he has to do something or lose even more credibility - as if he had any anyway.
Perfect!

I'm betting we will go in, sadly, but it won't be for any "benevolent cause". It will be strictly what is politically beneficial for Obama, nothing more.
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:38 pm

He can save face by doing what Congressmen are saying... Don't screw militarily with Syria without Congressional approval. He will be able to blame them for us not getting involved.

But, egos being what they are, the Commander-in-Chief will not abrogate his power one iota. So, it looks like we are going to jab a stick in the ol' bees' nest again.


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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:56 am

Eric wrote:
He can save face by doing what Congressmen are saying... Don't screw militarily with Syria without Congressional approval.  He will be able to blame them for us not getting involved.

But, egos being what they are, the Commander-in-Chief will not abrogate his power one iota.  So, it looks like we are going to jab a stick in the ol' bees' nest again.

Another History Lesson......Current VP Biden wanted to impeach President Bush if he attacked w/o Congress being involved.....
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:35 am

mediawatcher wrote:
Eric wrote:
He can save face by doing what Congressmen are saying... Don't screw militarily with Syria without Congressional approval.  He will be able to blame them for us not getting involved.

But, egos being what they are, the Commander-in-Chief will not abrogate his power one iota.  So, it looks like we are going to jab a stick in the ol' bees' nest again.

   Another History Lesson......Current VP Biden wanted to impeach President Bush if he attacked w/o Congress being involved.....
And BHO bombed Libya without Congressional approval.
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:15 am

nochain wrote:
mediawatcher wrote:
Eric wrote:
He can save face by doing what Congressmen are saying... Don't screw militarily with Syria without Congressional approval.  He will be able to blame them for us not getting involved.

But, egos being what they are, the Commander-in-Chief will not abrogate his power one iota.  So, it looks like we are going to jab a stick in the ol' bees' nest again.

   Another History Lesson......Current VP Biden wanted to impeach President Bush if he attacked w/o Congress being involved.....
And BHO bombed Libya without Congressional approval.
     It's amazing the hypocrisy.....Russia is warning of 'dire consequences' if Syria is bombed and Iran says 'Israel will be the first victim'....Also strange that Europe is gung ho with this adventure...Israel has called up reservists after Iranian threat made....this could get ugly very quick...
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:03 am

Perfect.

How many young lives will be lost?
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:08 am

These guys have been fighting over since time immemorial.

That ain't gonna change, no matter what we do.

How are Iraq and Afghanistan things going? Don't those idiots learn from history?

I'll bet the manufacturers of cruise missiles are having orgasms right now$$$$$

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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:16 am

Eric wrote:
These guys have been fighting over since time immemorial.  

That ain't gonna change, no matter what we do.

How are Iraq and Afghanistan things going?  Don't those idiots learn from history?

I'll bet the manufacturers of cruise missiles are having orgasms right now$$$$$
Yep, at somewhere around 1-1.5 mil apiece they are loving this action.
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:22 am

nochain wrote:
Eric wrote:
These guys have been fighting over since time immemorial.  

That ain't gonna change, no matter what we do.

How are Iraq and Afghanistan things going?  Don't those idiots learn from history?

I'll bet the manufacturers of cruise missiles are having orgasms right now$$$$$
Yep, at somewhere around 1-1.5 mil apiece they are loving this action.
    This is a decision that had better be thought through and Congress informed...The cowh was so critical of the previous administration NOW he's finding out what making a decision of this importance is all about...easy to be on the sideline chirping and second guessing now HE will be responsible of the action(s) taken and the fallout of those actions...Difficult to Blame Bush for this.... LOL!!!!....Just watched two videos of coverage on MSNBC and CNN and they are falling all over themselves in attempting to point out that this possible action against Syria is totally different that Iraq and the cowh is brave for standing up to the Asaad regime....WOW!!!!...How can they sleep at night?....
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:05 pm

As I understand it, this administration is "standing up to Assad" but, on the other hand, this administration doesn't want regime change.

Strange paradox, I'm thinking.
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:21 pm

Melissa (PB) wrote:
As I understand it, this administration is "standing up to Assad" but, on the other hand, this administration doesn't want regime change.

Strange paradox, I'm thinking.
I don't see the logic in wanting to "punish" Syria for this chemical attack except on a personal level, some sources suggest there have been around 30 gas attacks (smaller scale, less news coverage). Syria is not a direct threat to us at this point however with Iran and Syria making serious noise about retaliation (read escalation across the Mideast) if the attack takes place one has to wonder what the goal of BHO could be, he has not articulated a policy reason for lobbing bombs (apparently he has no policy to point to) and he certainly has not attempted to get Congressional buy in - at least not publically. Hopefully calmer heads will prevail and this idea will die a quiet death.
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:23 pm

Melissa, it's so f'ed. I had lunch with my ex yesterday and we are old enough to "remember". We agreed!

I've also traveled through the mid east enough to know that no amount of "military assistance" is going to change these people. They are not us, nor will they ever be us regardless of the bombs.

Too many people will die, too much money spent and we will come out...................?

So freakin sad. I hate the idea of sending our men into that circus.
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:00 pm

mediawatcher wrote:
Just watched two videos of coverage on MSNBC and CNN and they are falling all over themselves in attempting to point out that this possible action against Syria is totally different that Iraq and the cowh is brave for standing up to the Asaad regime....WOW!!!!...How can they sleep at night?....
MSNBC & CNN have everything to gain if there is dramatic news.  They get higher viewership and it helps their bottom line.

I'll bet they have people on the ground in Syria... ready to broadcast the blow-by-blows... Satelite dishes aimed, cameras focused with infrared sensors (green tinge) and reporters ready with microphones in hand (or at least close by).

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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:16 pm

Melissa (PB) wrote:
As I understand it, this administration is "standing up to Assad" but, on the other hand, this administration doesn't want regime change.

Strange paradox, I'm thinking.
Nah, they publicly state they want a regime change.  They are saying that, if (when) they launch the missiles, the purpose of launching the missiles will be to cripple Syria's capability to launch more chemical weapons.  The administration is clear that the launching of cruise missiles will NOT be to topple the regime... although they want that too.

An article on Fox News today
Quote :
The administration specified Tuesday that the goal of a military response to alleged chemical attacks by the Syrian government is “not regime change,” although that has been the basis of U.S. policy toward Assad over the past two years.
Another link "Assad must go" video

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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:27 pm

Here is an interesting twist I found on the internet (must be true, huh?).

Anyway, last January, a Malaysian hacker released a British defense contractor BRITAM data that was hacked and this interesting e-mail came up.

Quote :
File name: Sirian Issue.eml
Email between David Goulding who is the Business Development Director and Philip regarding a new offer about an operation in Syria.



Phil

We’ve got a new offer. It’s about Syria again. Qataris propose an attractive deal and swear that the idea is approved by Washington.
We’ll have to deliver a CW to Homs, a Soviet origin g-shell from Libya similar to those that Assad should have.
They want us to deploy our Ukrainian personnel that should speak Russian and make a video record.
Frankly, I don’t think it’s a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous. Your opinion?

Kind regards

David

If you want to read more about this hack and data found, it can be read here http://www.cyberwarnews.info/reports/a-look-into-the-britam-defence-data-leak-files&/?=1

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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:29 pm

ForeignPolicy.com published this...Article about an intercepted phone call

Quote :
Last Wednesday, in the hours after a horrific chemical attack east of Damascus, an official at the Syrian Ministry of Defense exchanged panicked phone calls with a leader of a chemical weapons unit, demanding answers for a nerve agent strike that killed more than 1,000 people. Those conversations were overheard by U.S. intelligence services, The Cable has learned. And that is the major reason why American officials now say they're certain that the attacks were the work of the Bashar al-Assad regime -- and why the U.S. military is likely to attack that regime in a matter of days.

But the intercept raises questions about culpability for the chemical massacre, even as it answers others: Was the attack on Aug. 21 the work of a Syrian officer overstepping his bounds? Or was the strike explicitly directed by senior members of the Assad regime? "It's unclear where control lies," one U.S. intelligence official told The Cable. "Is there just some sort of general blessing to use these things? Or are there explicit orders for each attack?"

Nor are U.S. analysts sure of the Syrian military's rationale for launching the strike -- if it had a rationale at all. Perhaps it was a lone general putting a long-standing battle plan in motion; perhaps it was a miscalculation by the Assad government. Whatever the reason, the attack has triggered worldwide outrage, and put the Obama administration on the brink of launching a strike of its own in Syria. "We don't know exactly why it happened," the intelligence official added. "We just know it was pretty f***ing stupid."
So, if THIS is the "smoking gun" that the U.S. is basing a cruise missile attack upon, does this convince you that we need to blow the shit out of Syria's command and control infrastructure?  I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling that the order came from higher-up.

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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:10 am

Melissa (PB) wrote:
As I understand it, this administration is "standing up to Assad" but, on the other hand, this administration doesn't want regime change.

Strange paradox, I'm thinking.
Standing up to Assad?....The cowh has gone to great lengths to spell out that any actions will be brief and limited...so basically he's telling everyone we'll lob a few missles to attempt to save face from the rhetoric that he and Sec of State Kerry have been delivering...The cowh said this strategy will send a clear message to Assad to "stop" what he's doing....Further you are correct he said this is not a regime change...so does that mean he (US) doesn't trust the rebel (terrorist aided) forces?...So we're between a dictator conducting genocide (supported by Russia-China-and Iran) against his own people and terrorist funded rebels...It's gotten so bad that now many nations are wanting the UN to save the day with a political solution...This is restoring our standing in the world as the cowh promised he would do?...
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:27 am

This is really turning into a big mess, now Russia is sending a ship and sub to the area - not that they would do anything but it's a signal that they disagree with BHO's rhetoric. An attack is going to make a lot of fanatics crazier than they are now over there.
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:11 am

nochain wrote:
This is really turning into a big mess, now Russia is sending a ship and sub to the area - not that they would do anything but it's a signal that they disagree with BHO's rhetoric. An attack is going to make a lot of fanatics crazier than they are now over there.
And next week the cowh goes to Russia for a summit with allies and experts are reporting that Putin is 'fuming' over the 'bored kid in the back of the class comments'...Still should tick everyone off that so many other nations will talk tough and then stand down and sadly now the US has followed that diplomacy...This tactic will only make the terrorists and dictators of the world less intimidated from retaliation...but nice to see that the protestors are now waking up and feeling like they've got a cause once again...
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PostSubject: Re: Syria....   Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:05 pm

Arab League Rejects Attack Against Syria
By David D. Kirkpatrick and Mark Landler
CAIRO -- The leaders of the Arab world on Tuesday blamed the Syrian government for a chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds of people last week, but declined to back a retaliatory military strike, leaving President Obama without the broad regional support he had for his last military intervention in the Middle East, in Libya in 2011.

http://ebird.osd.mil/ebird2/ebfiles/e20130828929573.html
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