A Dilemma for me.

I just want to say something. No one of this forum has accused me of anything or has even suggested what I am going to say. But others in the Media and other forums have. You people are my friends, Just my point of view.


The dilemma is sometimes used as a rhetorical device, in the form "you must accept either A, or B"; here A and B would be propositions each leading to some further conclusion. Applied incorrectly, it constitutes a false dichotomy, a fallacy.

As most of you already know I used to have dealings with the NSA. I had direct contact with them for 3 years. I was in the Military but in truth I worked for the NSA. Suffice to say I worked in the COMINT community. I am proud to say that I did.
When I joined I had to apply for a Top Secret Crypto Clearance. It was a big big deal for me. I went to the office of a field Grade officer for a interview. He asked me if I understood what I was doing. He asked, Did I understand that my decision to work with them could affect the lives and careers of others? I said 'Yes" I raised my right and swore to a oath that said I gave my word to protect and defend my country. Part of the Oath was not to disclose anything I would learn in the performance of my duties. I have honoured that oath for close to 50 years. I still do.

Now we have a person who violates that Oath and is considered a "Hero". Now many others berate me for not coming forth with what I know. In many peoples eyes, I am now the "Bad Guy"

I made my choice along time ago and I am never troubled by that decision.

I am a man of my word. I can live with that.

Thanks for listening

I understand and respect your position on this HG, and I agree that a person should honor his word and commitment not just for the duration of his service, but for life.

I don't think you are not the Bad Guy here... you are the Good Guy.

You have my utmost trust and respect, man. I love you, man.

Whatever we say on this forum will not affect how I feel about you as a person.

I can never thank you too much for helping me when I was in need of help. You are a true friend and a truly good person.

Please do not let me hamper this discussion on national security. That was not the reason for my post. The debate is open, I think it is good for all of us.
I am not pro government. For me it is just a question of ethics but now that the can has been opened, let talk about it.

If I have said anything that made you uncomfortable, HG, I apologize from the bottom of my heart.

We shoot from the hip with our comments... some are poorly worded and some are interpreted in ways that were not intended.

Regarding the NSA, I understand why the information is needed. It is just that every action can be carried to an extreme, some actions are done illegally (with good intentions) and not all people will use collected information in an honorable manner.

As long as governmental actions are conducted in a constitutional manner, with safeguards in place to protect the privacy of it's citizens... I have no problems.

Citizenry that are lulled into complacency and do not question their governance, deserve what they get.

You have in no way offened me. The NSA/CIA is too big, too powerful, they are out of control. Our rights are being violiated as we speak. They are the tail wagging the dog. We MUST speak out. I agree with all of you. But Hopefully there will be a method to rein them in. We can only hope. My point is that this discloure may be very small in the sceme of things. I will help lead the charge to speak out. All is good.......

hallmarkgrad wrote:

You have in no way offened me. The NSA/CIA is too big, too powerful, they are out of control. Our rights are being violiated as we speak. They are the tail wagging the dog. We MUST speak out. I agree with all of you. But Hopefully there will be a method to rein them in. We can only hope. My point is that this discloure may be very small in the sceme of things. I will help lead the charge to speak out. All is good.......

Just don't violate your oath. Speak your mind, but keep your promises.

I understand, Hallmark.

Honestly, I think there is something fishy about this Snowden guy. I don't entirely believe everything he's said.

There seems to me a lot wrong with his story. I am sure he may have gathered Intel but ordering "Official" Wire taps I would think is a bit of a stretch. It works both ways. You can rest assured that his terminal was "key stroke logged"(primitive, I am sure) and they can recreate ever thing he ever did.

hallmarkgrad wrote:

I just want to say something. No one of this forum has accused me of anything or has even suggested what I am going to say. But others in the Media and other forums have. You people are my friends, Just my point of view.


The dilemma is sometimes used as a rhetorical device, in the form "you must accept either A, or B"; here A and B would be propositions each leading to some further conclusion. Applied incorrectly, it constitutes a false dichotomy, a fallacy.

As most of you already know I used to have dealings with the NSA. I had direct contact with them for 3 years. I was in the Military but in truth I worked for the NSA. Suffice to say I worked in the COMINT community. I am proud to say that I did.
When I joined I had to apply for a Top Secret Crypto Clearance. It was a big big deal for me. I went to the office of a field Grade officer for a interview. He asked me if I understood what I was doing. He asked, Did I understand that my decision to work with them could affect the lives and careers of others? I said 'Yes" I raised my right and swore to a oath that said I gave my word to protect and defend my country. Part of the Oath was not to disclose anything I would learn in the performance of my duties. I have honoured that oath for close to 50 years. I still do.

Now we have a person who violates that Oath and is considered a "Hero". Now many others berate me for not coming forth with what I know. In many peoples eyes, I am now the "Bad Guy"

I made my choice along time ago and I am never troubled by that decision.

I am a man of my word. I can live with that.

Thanks for listening

I agree HG. I would never let the word hero escape my lips in reference to Snowdon. As far as I am concerned he is a traitor.

Hallmark, I consider you a friend, even though we've only met once. You are a good man - that much I know. I respect that you honor your commitment.

I may be wrong, but Snowden strikes me as a bit of a glory hound. I mean, why did he feel the need to disclose his actions and his name? Something isn't right there. I can't help but compare him with Deep Throat (Mark Felt.) Felt never disclosed his participation with Woodward, et al, under he was just about on his death bed.

Yes, PB. I agree. I think he thinks he's very important or that he wants to be very important.

Eric wrote:

Just don't violate your oath. Speak your mind, but keep your promises.

Couldn't agree more, Eric. HG is one of the good guys.

I had an Uncle who worked like "Get Smart"..remember that series?? He went underground all his working career and no one knew what he did, including his wife or brothers.

Much later, when it had lost all significance, he told us he was working on development of the Loran and was often in Nuclear Submarines, but no more detail than that. He too, had taken an oath.

He was mysterious and way over my head, but I always found him admirable.


Without our word, what do we have???

I have the utmost respect for you Hallmark.

Thanks to all of you. I did not want this to come off as a "Poor Me" post. I just wanted to state why some people are feeling the way that they are. I am going to Chicago tomorrow and so by the time I get back I am sure we have more info on the issue. What I know is old and outdated and is already known in most circles. The way it is set up. that is the way it works. You, personally know very little except what you do. Oh you have a damn good idea what other people do but you dont go over and BS about it,

I guess this is what is bothering me. People seem to be able to find out a lot of info that is not in their sector. This may result in Major changes being made to the system. Or there may be motives that are unknown to us. NSA is Notorious for Power struggles. Someone may have got thrown under the Bus for some reason we will never know about. We will see, maybe. Please let us continue this discussion I really do not know any more than any of you. All I am saying is, I dont know where we are going but I have ridden a bus before. LOL

Sweetheart, obviously I can only truly speak for myself, but I very seriously suspect that the rest of the Everyday Pensacola Forum Family will agree with me when I say that nothing you have said here or at any other time has ever come-off as you having a "Poor Me" attitude. Quite the opposite, in fact... rest assured.

"All is good."

I agree, Riceme. Now Hallmark - you stay safe on your trip, and enjoy the time with your family!

Travel safely, HG.  

This forum is like one big family.  And it is a family that gets along with one another.

Hey!  What's with the new icons?  One says "hide".  When I get to the laptop, I'll do an evaluation of any changes and make a report.

Safe travels, Hallmark.  

Be safe and have fun HG.......